Theos-Talk Archives (September 2004 Message tt00090)

 Hi Perry
Thank you for expressing your ideas so well.
I have come to a similar understanding after 30 odd years of studying
various spiritual 
ideas ending up in theosophy 14 years ago.
I think the inner yearning to KNOW is developed over previous lives and this
time around it is a matter of reminding oneself about the wisdom teaching
and also expanding one's consciousness to encompass more of the teachings
along the lines you expressed.
Also the ideas presented in the teachings of the Rounds & Races may not have
direct
applicability but as these ideas simmer, an expanded, inner consciousness
grows and has
a definite effect on how one deals with the world around us. Thank you
Dallas, for your post of a short time ago in this connection.
It is impossible to present occult ideas to minds that have not had the
background knowledge
to encorporate them into, so incorrect assumptions arise. I have visiting
Jehovas who are intent 
on hanging on to their views even though we agree in principle in the basics
of brotherhood.
There is no way they want to understand where I am coming from so I am sure
the Mahatmas
speak about such people and suggest to leave them to their iron-cast belief
system.
I remember someone saying long ago that it is the worst thing to do, to take
away someone's beliefs unless one has something to put in it's place that
the person can benefit from.
I have an affinity with the writings of G de Purucker and keep re-reading
his books and other bits & pieces. He also holds to ideas such as you
express. Reading his books causes me to have inner 
shifts among my mental pigeon-holes and so my understanding grows.
I also feel that much of the religious, spiritual wisdom that was written in
other languages than English, loose a lot in translation. This is where
perhaps our theosophical founders could be thought of as more reliable as
they wrote directly into English what they found and understood.
The Mahatma letters are a source of wisdom and humour for me. Again I feel
they are trying to 
express ideas that the English language has not the words to do justice to.
The only way is to let the words float and find the feelings and meanings
behind them that the author wanted to convey.
I cannot easily quote passages etc from what I read but I gather in the
thoughts and feelings that the author was trying to convey. Some books have
nothing behind the scenes to experience. :-)
I have experienced the effects of the darker side and it isn't pleasant so I
understand why some folk go live in the quieter parts of the world. I have
to confess I have done the same so to see out my final years in peace and in
study yet still be among ordinary folk so to practice what I have learned in
everyday interactions with them.
Thank you again for all the wise and knowledgable post I read every day even
if I am not moved to respond very often.
Bee

Hi Bill and all.
Just a couple of thoughts and a few quotes to speculate on this
subject :

"Now, an entity, that is passing through the occult training in its
successive births, gradually has less and less (in each incarnation)
of that lower Manas until there arrives a time when its whole Manas,
being of an entirely elevated character, is centered in the higher
individuality, when such a person may be said to have become a
MAHATMA."
http://www.blavatsky.net/blavatsky/arts/MahatmasAndChelas.htm

Regarding the Mahatma's and their "Chiefs" the way I understand
what is presented is the Mahatmas belong to an Occult order.
According to theosophical teachings as presented by HPB and her
teachers the Cosmos is hierarchical .
This hierarchy (I once heard Ken Wilber describe as a Whole-archy)
is simply different levels of cosciousness and awareness
I also heard the Occult Hierarchy described as different levels of
responsibility rather than 'superiority' in the ordinary sense.
Beings serving in different roles and functions.

With knowledge inevitably comes power and with Occult knowledge
comes Occult power.
If knowledge is misused it becomes dangerous both oneself and to
others.
We are told that with the light the shadow follows with equal
potential.
Until a certain degree of initiation is reached we can "fall" and
instead of manifesting Cosmic Harmony, work against that process.

My understanding is Evolution is ongoing even the Chohans are an
evolving beings.
As are the `highest' planetary spirits...
The Secret doctrine speaks of this Solar manvantara only in our
dimention of consciousness.

My understanding is there are different degrees of Adept, Manas
being the principle to be fully Self realised at our human stage.
The Mahatmas apparently slowed down their own progress and also
would be karmically accountable for the information they released as
this information is power bestowing, it can fall either side good or
bad.

The Mahatma saying "the less such "idiots" hear of our teachings the
better in relation to the said quote.
To me was out of concern for humanity as a whole as misuse of the
powers that could and can be developed without the necessary ethical
development could do more harm than good.
This also ties in with why HPB kept warning of the dangers
of "disfigured teachings" that encourage reckless development of
psychic abilities used for selfish ends only.

The passage below to me is related to the reason the Mahatma's did
not want to encourage blind following or worship of gods of any kind
as that would be the opposite to what they were hoping would result
from the release of this information.

"Faith in the Gods and God, and other superstitions attracts
millions of foreign influences, living entities and powerful agents
around them, with which we would have to use more than ordinary
exercise of power to drive them away. We do not choose to do so. We
do not find it either necessary or profitable to lose our time
waging war to the unprogressed Planetaries who delight in
personating gods and sometimes well known characters who have lived
on earth. There are Dhyan-Chohans and "Chohans of Darkness," not
what they term devils but imperfect "Intelligences" who have never
been born on this or any other earth or sphere no more than
the "Dhyan Chohans" have and who will never belong to the "builders
of the Universe," the pure Planetary Intelligences, who preside at
every Manvantara while the Dark Chohans preside at the Pralayas.
Explain this to Mr. Sinnett (I CAN'T) -- tell him to read over what
I said to them in the few things I have explained to Mr. Hume; and
let him remember that as all in this universe is contrast (I cannot
translate it better) so the light of the Dhyan Chohans and their
pure intelligence is contrasted by the "Ma-Mo Chohans" -- and their
destructive intelligence. These are the gods the Hindus and
Christians and Mahomed and all others of bigoted religions and sects
worship; and so long as their influence is upon their devotees we
would no more think of associating with or counteracting them in
their work than we do the Red-Caps on earth whose evil results we
try to palliate but whose work we have no right to meddle with so
long as they do not cross our path. (You will not understand this, I
suppose. But think well over it and you will. M. means here, that
they have no right or even power to go against the natural or that
work which is prescribed to each class of beings or existing things
by the law of nature. The Brothers, for instance could prolong life
but they could not destroy death, not even for themselves. They can
to a degree palliate evil and relieve suffering; they could not
destroy evil. No more can the Dhyan Chohans impede the work of the
Mamo Chohans, for their Law is darkness, ignorance, destruction
etc., as that of the former is Light, knowledge and creation. The
Dhyan Chohans answer to Buddh, Divine Wisdom and Life in blissful
knowledge, and the Ma-mos are the personification in nature of
Shiva, Jehovah and other invented monsters with Ignorance at their
tail).

http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/mahatma/ml-134.htm



Perry







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]