Theos-Talk Archives (September 2004 Message tt00154)

Hello Bee,
Thanks for your comments one of things in theosophical teachings I 
like is the way it actually gets you to look within and without so 
that you can get your own intuitions reagarding the nature of the 
Cosmos.

Many paths can focus on self liberation in a way which ironically 
can make people even more self concerned and only think about there 
own escape into bliss.

The unltimate goal of the Bhodhisattva path is to renounce bliss for 
self in order to help others...that to me is why Voice of the 
Silence is the most powerful and compelling in HPB's writings it 
touches the Heart so deeply.

The way I try an work with the theosophical teachings is to always 
go back to the 3 fundermental propositions.
Oneness, interconnectedness, relationship between within-without 
large-small ect.
The Chohan in his letter made the statement :
"The doctrine we promulgate being the only true one, must--supported 
by such evidence as we are preparing to give--become ultimately 
triumphant, like every other truth. Yet it is absolutely necessary 
to inculcate it gradually; enforcing its theories (unimpeachable 
facts for those who know) with direct inference, deduced from and 
corroborated by the evidence furnished by modern exact science."

The doctrine he spoke about in my understaning was the teaching of 
the ONENESS of ALL.
A good yardstick for when we look at any teaching claiming to 
be "theosophical".
Is the teaching consistant or does it have serious philosophical 
flaws and also is the teaching open to scutiny ect.

The Chohan also says in that letter :
"..we have to preach and popularize a knowledge of Theosophy. It is 
not the individual and determined purpose of attaining Nirvana--the 
culmination of all knowledge and absolute wisdom, which is after all 
only an exalted and glorious selfishness--but the self-sacrificing 
pursuit of the best means to lead on the right path our neighbour, 
to cause to benefit by it as many of our fellow-creatures as we 
possibly can, which constitutes the true Theosophist." 

No no need to have studied "theosophy" to be a true Theosophist 
(I love that statement)
also:

"The intellectual portion of mankind seems to be fast dividing into 
two classes: the one unconsciously preparing for itself long periods 
of temporary annihilation or states of non-consciousness, owing to 
the deliberate surrender of intellect, and its imprisonment in the 
narrow grooves of bigotry and superstition--a process which cannot 
fail to lead to the utter deformation of the intellectual principle; 
the other unrestrainedly indulging its animal propensities with the 
deliberate intention of submitting to annihilation pure and simple, 
in case of failure, and to millenniums of degradation after physical 
dissolution. Those intellectual classes, reacting upon the ignorant 
masses--which they attract, and which look up to them as noble and 
fit examples to be followed--degrade and morally ruin those they 
ought to protect and guide. Between degrading superstition and still 
more degrading brutal materialism, the White Dove of Truth has 
hardly room whereon to rest her weary unwelcome feet."

This is an important quote I think as it seems to imply the danger 
of blind 
beleif following and the ehtical responsiblity those "intellectual 
classes" have in not perpectuating distorted and false superstistius 
beleifs and power structures.

Another reason why HPB and the Adepts came down so strongly on 
eletist Preisthoods, gods and blind materialism, the two extremes 
that keep the mind either locked into the need of an intermediary 
thus disempoering or with the case of dogmatic science shutting the 
mind down to any possibility of a spiritual component to life.
I think the key for me always seems to come back to balance and 
never becoming fixed in our understandings.

My experiance with the JWs showed how the "intellectual principal" 
can be shut down for the entire incarnation and how that then can
impacts on the skandas and can become a worn grove that could take 
many incarnations to resovlve.

Thus for me this is the reason we need to be ever on guard that any 
theosophical writer is never 'off limits' for genuine criticism.
Including HPB or any writing as long as it is done in the spirit of 
open minded enquiry.

Regards
Perry







--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Bee Brown" <bbbrown@x> wrote:
> Hi Perry
> Thank you for expressing your ideas so well.
> I have come to a similar understanding after 30 odd years of 
studying
> various spiritual 
> ideas ending up in theosophy 14 years ago.
> I think the inner yearning to KNOW is developed over previous 
lives and this
> time around it is a matter of reminding oneself about the wisdom 
teaching
> and also expanding one's consciousness to encompass more of the 
teachings
> along the lines you expressed.
> Also the ideas presented in the teachings of the Rounds & Races 
may not have
> direct
> applicability but as these ideas simmer, an expanded, inner 
consciousness
> grows and has
> a definite effect on how one deals with the world around us. Thank 
you
> Dallas, for your post of a short time ago in this connection.
> It is impossible to present occult ideas to minds that have not 
had the
> background knowledge
> to encorporate them into, so incorrect assumptions arise. I have 
visiting
> Jehovas who are intent 
> on hanging on to their views even though we agree in principle in 
the basics
> of brotherhood.
> There is no way they want to understand where I am coming from so 
I am sure
> the Mahatmas
> speak about such people and suggest to leave them to their iron-
cast belief
> system.
> I remember someone saying long ago that it is the worst thing to 
do, to take
> away someone's beliefs unless one has something to put in it's 
place that
> the person can benefit from.
> I have an affinity with the writings of G de Purucker and keep re-
reading
> his books and other bits & pieces. He also holds to ideas such as 
you
> express. Reading his books causes me to have inner 
> shifts among my mental pigeon-holes and so my understanding grows.
> I also feel that much of the religious, spiritual wisdom that was 
written in
> other languages than English, loose a lot in translation. This is 
where
> perhaps our theosophical founders could be thought of as more 
reliable as
> they wrote directly into English what they found and understood.
> The Mahatma letters are a source of wisdom and humour for me. 
Again I feel
> they are trying to 
> express ideas that the English language has not the words to do 
justice to.
> The only way is to let the words float and find the feelings and 
meanings
> behind them that the author wanted to convey.
> I cannot easily quote passages etc from what I read but I gather 
in the
> thoughts and feelings that the author was trying to convey. Some 
books have
> nothing behind the scenes to experience. :-)
> I have experienced the effects of the darker side and it isn't 
pleasant so I
> understand why some folk go live in the quieter parts of the 
world. I have
> to confess I have done the same so to see out my final years in 
peace and in
> study yet still be among ordinary folk so to practice what I have 
learned in
> everyday interactions with them.
> Thank you again for all the wise and knowledgable post I read 
every day even
> if I am not moved to respond very often.
> Bee
> 
> Hi Bill and all.
> Just a couple of thoughts and a few quotes to speculate on this
> subject :
> 
> "Now, an entity, that is passing through the occult training in its
> successive births, gradually has less and less (in each 
incarnation)
> of that lower Manas until there arrives a time when its whole 
Manas,
> being of an entirely elevated character, is centered in the higher
> individuality, when such a person may be said to have become a
> MAHATMA."
> http://www.blavatsky.net/blavatsky/arts/MahatmasAndChelas.htm
> 
> Regarding the Mahatma's and their "Chiefs" the way I understand
> what is presented is the Mahatmas belong to an Occult order.
> According to theosophical teachings as presented by HPB and her
> teachers the Cosmos is hierarchical .
> This hierarchy (I once heard Ken Wilber describe as a Whole-archy)
> is simply different levels of cosciousness and awareness
> I also heard the Occult Hierarchy described as different levels of
> responsibility rather than 'superiority' in the ordinary sense.
> Beings serving in different roles and functions.
> 
> With knowledge inevitably comes power and with Occult knowledge
> comes Occult power.
> If knowledge is misused it becomes dangerous both oneself and to
> others.
> We are told that with the light the shadow follows with equal
> potential.
> Until a certain degree of initiation is reached we can "fall" and
> instead of manifesting Cosmic Harmony, work against that process.
> 
> My understanding is Evolution is ongoing even the Chohans are an
> evolving beings.
> As are the `highest' planetary spirits...
> The Secret doctrine speaks of this Solar manvantara only in our
> dimention of consciousness.
> 
> My understanding is there are different degrees of Adept, Manas
> being the principle to be fully Self realised at our human stage.
> The Mahatmas apparently slowed down their own progress and also
> would be karmically accountable for the information they released 
as
> this information is power bestowing, it can fall either side good 
or
> bad.
> 
> The Mahatma saying "the less such "idiots" hear of our teachings 
the
> better in relation to the said quote.
> To me was out of concern for humanity as a whole as misuse of the
> powers that could and can be developed without the necessary 
ethical
> development could do more harm than good.
> This also ties in with why HPB kept warning of the dangers
> of "disfigured teachings" that encourage reckless development of
> psychic abilities used for selfish ends only.
> 
> The passage below to me is related to the reason the Mahatma's did
> not want to encourage blind following or worship of gods of any 
kind
> as that would be the opposite to what they were hoping would result
> from the release of this information.
> 
> "Faith in the Gods and God, and other superstitions attracts
> millions of foreign influences, living entities and powerful agents
> around them, with which we would have to use more than ordinary
> exercise of power to drive them away. We do not choose to do so. We
> do not find it either necessary or profitable to lose our time
> waging war to the unprogressed Planetaries who delight in
> personating gods and sometimes well known characters who have lived
> on earth. There are Dhyan-Chohans and "Chohans of Darkness," not
> what they term devils but imperfect "Intelligences" who have never
> been born on this or any other earth or sphere no more than
> the "Dhyan Chohans" have and who will never belong to the "builders
> of the Universe," the pure Planetary Intelligences, who preside at
> every Manvantara while the Dark Chohans preside at the Pralayas.
> Explain this to Mr. Sinnett (I CAN'T) -- tell him to read over what
> I said to them in the few things I have explained to Mr. Hume; and
> let him remember that as all in this universe is contrast (I cannot
> translate it better) so the light of the Dhyan Chohans and their
> pure intelligence is contrasted by the "Ma-Mo Chohans" -- and their
> destructive intelligence. These are the gods the Hindus and
> Christians and Mahomed and all others of bigoted religions and 
sects
> worship; and so long as their influence is upon their devotees we
> would no more think of associating with or counteracting them in
> their work than we do the Red-Caps on earth whose evil results we
> try to palliate but whose work we have no right to meddle with so
> long as they do not cross our path. (You will not understand this, 
I
> suppose. But think well over it and you will. M. means here, that
> they have no right or even power to go against the natural or that
> work which is prescribed to each class of beings or existing things
> by the law of nature. The Brothers, for instance could prolong life
> but they could not destroy death, not even for themselves. They can
> to a degree palliate evil and relieve suffering; they could not
> destroy evil. No more can the Dhyan Chohans impede the work of the
> Mamo Chohans, for their Law is darkness, ignorance, destruction
> etc., as that of the former is Light, knowledge and creation. The
> Dhyan Chohans answer to Buddh, Divine Wisdom and Life in blissful
> knowledge, and the Ma-mos are the personification in nature of
> Shiva, Jehovah and other invented monsters with Ignorance at their
> tail).
> 
> http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/mahatma/ml-134.htm
> 
> 
> 
> Perry
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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