Theos-Talk Archives (July 2003 Message tt00033)

Hi Wry and all of you,

In the below, using *** encapsulating, - are some short friendly and
wellmeant answers to your email.

Feel free to do something good...
(Is this better "Nisk98114" ?)


from
M. Sufilight with peace and love...



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "wry" <wry1111@earthlink.net>
To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 6:16 PM
Subject: Re: Theos-World Blavatsky/Theosophy Websites & Resources


> Hi Morton. I am not sure the teacher needs to be alive for there to still
be
> baraka.

***The teacher does'nt of course NEED to be alive physically speaking. But
as mentioned in my article at
( http://home19.inet.tele.dk/global-theosophy/BLAVATSK.HTM ; Chapter 1);
the wise teacher dies, when it is appropriate to do so. The teacher sort of
goes out of the teaching room - and watches the students from above. The
students do something like, what the article pictures. They formulate
themseleves in different manners. Some of them goes astray others follow the
path. But who is to tell who is who ?
This my ohter link seek to help the interested seeker with:
(http://home19.inet.tele.dk/global-theosophy/SUFI2.HTM )
I suggest, that you read my next intended email to Theos-Talk.
****


In my opinion, it is the potential shockpoints of the aim, so to
> speak, that contain and amplifies the emanations of the participants as
they
> strive to fufill the unique and ever changing requirements that will lead
to
> its actualization. But when a form that suits the accomplishment of
> requirements that have already been actualized is rigidly adhered to, it
is
> no longer alive in that there is not much force, there no longer being the
> same level of necessity.. I am putting this in rather broad terms. We
would
> have
> to look at the work of Madame Blavatsky very carefully to determine what
her
> aim was.

*** Yes agreed. Her aim was also to create a buffer against the
"Miracle-club" syndrome of the Spiritists and ESP-seekers - by promoting
altruism, an issue those groups lacked to a certain extend.
(http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/hpb-am/hpb-am1.htm ) It was created to
"stem the current of materialism, and also that of spiritualistic
phenomenalism and the worship of the Dead." (Blavatsky quoted). And there is
more in that link.
The link is actually good at describing the aim Blavatsky had. I my next
email I interpret and seek to evolve that aim a little in a direction, which
a high number of Theosophical groups shold or aught to be concerned with -
as far as my views goes. But that is just my view, and who is to tell if I
am right. And let us remember that this view is only a limited one.
***

If we say her aim was to create a universal brotherhood, even
> though this may have been her aim, it may not put the finger on her exact
> aim, as this is too broad to relate to specific doing. If we say her aim
> was
> to present certain concepts to the west in a form in which they could be
> assimilated, this is probably closer to the truth. We all have a pretty
good
> idea of what these
> ideas were and how and if they were assimilated. In the specific time in
> which this was being done, a specific need was present which corresponded
to
> this doing like a hollow cave or a cup receive what goes into it. When
> people moved in relationship to the
> perceived necessity of actualizing this aim, there was a certain charge
and
> quality due to the specific relevance of their movements in relationship
to
> this.. Of course my interpretation of her aim could be wrong,
> but my sense is that it is accurate,.
> Imagine being one little person in the whole big world and then seeing
> something truly major you could do that might profoundly effect the course
> of the
> development of future human beings. Imagine being a part of this, which
was
> all new, the thrill of it, the imbuement of being in that time and place
and
> acting in relationship to this, always discovering new connections and
> linking things up in such a way that certain happenings could
> occur, as if by magic, but in actuality, only having to do with knowing
how
> to make a good plan and insert certain shocks so it would not deflect.
> Imagine the joy. All this "charge" was presumably communicated
> to the people who surrounded Madame Blavatsky, not so much by her, but by
> the
> act of their own participation in relationship to what she was doing,
which
> amplified their own emanations, so to speak.

***Yes, the law of Karma is important to have knowledge about. Let us not
only assume or hypotetically believe we know it exists. Let us present it as
a known and expereinced fact by some of the readers here at Theos-Talk.
***


> This is a different time in the world, and now there are other major
> projects to do, as exciting as Madame Blavatsky's. Perhaps we need a
> visionary to put things together in such a way that we can participate in
> such a project. On a certain level, at a certain time, each person is
> free to create his own project which suits his own capabilities at the
same
> time it corresponds to a need, but petty little people tend to get lost in
> petty little projects. Do not be misled about each person working alone
from
> his own intuition. In my opinion, though some good works may be
> accomplished, greater doing will not happen in this
> way, as the intuition becomes mixed up with the personality and blunted by
> such. This is kindergarten and though each person will have to struggle to
> learn the alphabet, and maybe even to tie his shoes, we are all in the
class
> together. The person who participles in making it a better class will
become
> the helper of the teacher. . Since we have no teacher on this list , if we
> create the right atmosphere, maybe what you call
> the Mahatmas will touch us here, in an act of grace.
>
***I claim some of the Mahatmas are more present at Theos-Talk, than a
number of the readers
might expect, believe or have knowledge about. Knowledge and wisdom being
more important than just assuming or believeing. An example: Just picture,
that a person mentions one communication
made by a Mahatma for only some hundred years back. The Mahatma must
certainly sense this to a certain degree. Again ignorance and lack of
development bars a beginners insight into this.
And yet all honest seekers are friends, - that is most of the time.
(A huge smile manifests itself.)
***


> What does it mean to be touched by grace? In my opinion, specific, well
> applied efforts by a little individual or individuals combine in such a
way
> as to form a set that can open a doorway for an angel, but if you think of
> that angel the next time, it is no longer grace, because the memory of the
> angel undermines the attetntiveness to what one is doing. which is what
has
> attracted him in the first place. I do not understand how human beings can
> expect to rely on the appearances of angels, since they rarely appear. If
> everything is already whole, it is whole, but, if not, doing consciously
> from earth connects us to another plane in such a way that something else
> can enter and make it whole for me. It is the art of making sense. Of
> course if we make total sense, we will be graced, as there is nothing else
> left to do, and sometimes we can create or connect to a shaft where grace
> enters, but the average person seems hell bent to make things chaotic, as
he
> wants to do something, anything, before he knows what or how.

***Exactly. A certain number of the Theosophists think of themselves, that
they know
WHAT to learn, WHEN to learn, and HOW to learn.
But in fact they do not.
They often forget that these days.
The wise teacher knows much better what they need and want, and when and how
they should receive it. First thing the students of Theosophy should now is
this:
They want to learn, but do NOT really know how to learn, when to learn, and
what to learn.
***


If the
> conscious manifestation of the body is the doorway to the divine. I
> believe the appropriate step to take is that of self study, and that it is
> pointless and irrelevant to talk about conditioning or unconditioning
> theosophists.It is ourselves who are conditioned. When the conditioning is
> recorded, the material will be released, as when you see, in present time,
> that you are conditioned,, then you are less conditioned re to whatever
> degree you have seen this. I do not see the point of your article.

***Forgive me for asking, but what article are you referring to ? I think
the readers
are entitled to know this more precisely.
***

To
> me it is a form of intellectualization akin to day dreaming. I do not
> understand how it can relate to the daily lives of any of us on here in
such
> a way that we can be changed. If you could speak in simple words and tell
of
> your own experience, perhaps I could relate to you better. Also, I did not
> like what you said to Katinka in your recent message. You implied she was
> undermining Bart when what she was doing just the opposite. To me this is
> dishonest.

***
What you for some reasons of your own think I "imply" with my emails is
maybe quite far from being a known fact. You could condsider this view. It
is wellmeant.

I thought Katinka was dishonest by seeking to make me comment on Bart etc...
We could start to become more personal - with each other here at Theos-Talk.
Our age, height, backgrounds etc...Then some readers will be able to better
teach others, or at least think that they will be able to do so. But I doubt
it will be fruitfull. Because not all will reveal who they really are.
***

Sincerely, Wry.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Morten Nymann Olesen" <global-theosophy@adslhome.dk>
> To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 12:53 PM
> Subject: Re: Theos-World Blavatsky/Theosophy Websites & Resources
>
>
> > Hi Wry and all of you,
> >
> > I was impressed with your email this time.
> > Not, that you thanked me, but this one - and I quote you in the below:
> >
> > "To put it gently, there is a good chance that the Blavatsky
> > > material has lost a lot of its baraka. This is not good or bad, in
that
>
> it
> > > always happens and is to be expected, but unless this is accounted
for,
> > > there is going to be a lot of wasted effort and a continued pouring
from
> > the
> > > empty into the void. What is baraka and how is it created? I believe
> this
> > > has something to do with a conscious aim in relationship to the
physical
> > > substances that are created and emanated from a certain individual or
> > > individuals as a result of the making of a conscious effort to realize
> > this
> > > aim. "
> >
> > I think this is an important statement.
> > But different branches like Alice A. Bailey's, Torkom Saraydarian's,
> Summit
> > Lighthous'ers,
> > and others with their own recently deceased personlity - or the like -
> will
> > maybe just ignore that statement.
> > That was why I some days back offered these:
> > http://home19.inet.tele.dk/global-theosophy/BLAVATSK.HTM (Try only
> Chapter
> > 1) and
> > http://home19.inet.tele.dk/global-theosophy/SUFI2.HTM (Try reading this)
> > I am open for enhancements and constructive criticism to the content of
> the
> > last link.
> > This goes for all the readers of this link.
> > (I know the website needs improvement...)
> >
> >
> > One version of Baraka is explained here:
> > The value for a student to go to a Theosophical meeting with a real wise
> > teacher is the following.
> > Without saying anything the teacher emanates special designs, forces and
> > energies and heals the crowd etc. Just being near such a person is
> > important. You do'nt even need to talk with the teacher.
> > This emanation of energies and forces or designs is Baraka - if it is
> truely
> > spiritual.
> > But who is to tell, which teacher is doing so? The beginner student
> does'nt
> > really know that.
> >
> > Another verison of Baraka. The accepted view among Theosophists is:
> > Blavatsky was spiritual. Some of the Masters supported the writing of
the
> > book The Secret Doctrine and creation of the Theosophical Movement at
> least
> > in its earliest days. Therefore there is a Baraka emanating around this
> book
> > and the Theosophical movement in general.
> >
> >
> >
> > Two questions:
> > Where do you live Wry ?
> > How do you learn how to learn ?
> >
> > Feel free to comment or do your best...
> >
> > from
> > M. Sufilight with peace and love...
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "wry" <wry1111@earthlink.net>
> > To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 7:37 PM
> > Subject: Re: Theos-World Blavatsky/Theosophy Websites & Resources
> >
> >
> > > Hi. This is not a response to you in particular, Morton, but a general
> > > comment on this subject. If we look back too much and in the wrong
way,
> we
> > > will turn into pillars of salt, as in the story of Sodom and Gomorrah.
> > There
> > > is no way to balance things by doing this, and the imbalance leads to
> more
> > > analysis and a further attachment to material. It is a maze and there
is
> > no
> > > way out. It has nothing to do with me and my opinions whether this is
> > true
> > > or not. It is a law in that a certain approach can only lead to a
> certain
> > > kind and quality of result.
> > >
> > > Moreover, re the Madame Blavatsky's material including the letters of
> the
> > > Mahatmas, whether they be real or fake, being time-appropriate. It is
> most
> > > interesting that I have had to present this idea to anyone who is an
> > > educated theosophist and that this idea originally encountered so much
> > > resistance (though this seems to be gradually changing) and that so
much
> > > hostility was expressed toward me for doing so, as this is so obvious
> and
> > > any good scholar of this kind of material could see it at first
glance.
> > > Moreover, it is my opinion that until this idea is understood and
> > accepted,
> > > things will be log jammed to a very large extent and people will miss
> the
> > > opportunity to use what is appropriate for this time and age from
Madame
> > > Blavatsky's teachings and apply it to the formation of a univeral
> > > brotherhood. To put it gently, there is a good chance that the
Blavatsky
> > > material has lost a lot of its baraka. This is not good or bad, in
that
> it
> > > always happens and is to be expected, but unless this is accounted
for,
> > > there is going to be a lot of wasted effort and a continued pouring
from
> > the
> > > empty into the void. What is baraka and how is it created? I believe
> this
> > > has something to do with a conscious aim in relationship to the
physical
> > > substances that are created and emanated from a certain individual or
> > > individuals as a result of the making of a conscious effort to realize
> > this
> > > aim. It is a most interesting subject and Morton does seem to be
> pointing
> > us
> > > in the direction of exploring this. For now, maybe it is at least
> > something
> > > to ponder about. Sincerely, Wry
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Morten Nymann Olesen" <global-theosophy@adslhome.dk>
> > > To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 1:18 AM
> > > Subject: Re: Theos-World Blavatsky/Theosophy Websites & Resources
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hi Daniel and all of you,
> > > >
> > > > My views are only views:
> > > >
> > > > I was searching a little and I got this page:
> > > > http://www.katinkahesselink.net/his/on_shearman.html
> > > >
> > > > I think it proves, that one just should NOT blindly rely on any of
the
> > > > Mahatma Letters to
> > > > be true or untrue in any manner what so ever.
> > > >
> > > > That is just my conclusion.
> > > >
> > > > Feel free to agree or disagree...etc...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > from
> > > > M. Sufilight with peace and love...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Daniel Caldwell" <danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com>
> > > > To: ".DanielHCaldwell" <danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com>
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 2:16 AM
> > > > Subject: Theos-World Blavatsky/Theosophy Websites & Resources
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > I've updated the following useful webpage:
> > > > >
> > > > > "Blavatsky/Theosophy Websites & Resources"
> > > > > http://www.blavatskyarchives.com/hpblinks.htm
> > > > >
> > > > > Feedback welcomed!
> > > > >
> > > > > Daniel H. Caldwell
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>