Theos-Talk Archives (January 2003 Message tt00430)

Hi Wry and all of you,

Thanks for your email Wry.

Wry worte:
"I do not understand why you give these quotes from Madame Blavatsky? Why do
> you? It is interesting that she refers to an oral tradition. Do you
believe
> her books are a means of conveying this? In my opinion they are no longer
> time -appropriate (if they ever were, which I am not sure of, though I
> suspect they were)."

My Sufilight views:
I am engaged in camparing Baileys teachings with Blavatskys. I am doing my
best to show
some here at Theos-Talk, that to promote such PR, which some pro-Bailey
groups do today, - while
being heavily involved with the United Nations, - are bad to the cause of
the ancient wisdom tradition.
Do you now understand why I did, what I did ?
I agree, the time is running out for the value of both Baileys and
Blavatskys authorships, but primarily pro-Bailey groups has problems these
days. But that doesn't imply, that both authors books can't help students
understand and absorb the wisdom tradition after some years of study of
these authors books. The will of course later or in between learn from other
sources books or not.
Let us remember, this is a Theosophical oriented place.
Have you ever tried the place at Yahoo called "caravansarai". This is a
quite funny - sufi-kind-of-group, and not so seriously involved as this one.
They arn't involved at The United Nations in such a direct manner as some of
the pro-Bailey groups are, at least not publicly. >:-)

My base is my inner knowledge and the inspiration which I receive while
living. To use other peoples writings to make a point is not always bad.

Wry wrote:
"This is why a very
> lengthy and tedious IMPARTIAL study of oneself AS ONE IS is the best
> approach and the fastest. Study this Baily stuff (or Blavatsky) till hell
> freezes over and you still will not be free. "

My Sufilight answer:
But Blavatsky is certainly agreeing on that. Try the Upanishads, which
Blavatsky says (in one of her articles) is almost identical to the
theosophical teachings !
And I agree with you.
One can read a number of books, and then not really go anywere spiritually
seen. One should read and then learn, and changes ones bad habits and
activities.
Sometimes, one ought not read certain books, whereas others would be just
fine. At other times one just ought to stay away from them. The same thing
goes - on emailing, Theos-Talk and similar issues.
>:-) (Big grin.)

Wry wrote:
"This material will not fall into place. That is a fantasy."

My Sufilight answer:
I will await some enlightening communications on that claim.

The fastest approach is NETI, NETI, not this, not that. King Janaka did
that - (The Upanishads).
Yes, Why not think - wisdom tradition. Why not stop thinking at all.
Thoughts are obstacles. >:-)
Yes Wry, but meditation must not become something one is addicted to - like
a Pratekya Buddhist !

I hope you understand.
If I should come up with something new, I would refer to the books written
by Idries Shah.
Something more new ? I am not about to write books and start a movement
myself, i.e. not yet. Emailing is enough.
Do you Wry have anything new ?
Maybe I should create something like a TRUE
....clone-theosophical-sufic-pagan-ufo-civil-rights-non-violence-political-r
eligios-movement,
so to avoid the tricky Muslim clones to get wiped out by any western
government... ?
>:-) Grin


Feel free to comment do your best...

from
M. Sufilight


----- Original Message -----
From: "wry" <wry1111@earthlink.net>
To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, January 17, 2003 7:04 PM
Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Shamballa behind facism ?


> Hi. There are too authorities, the authority of belief and following, and
> what has been called "a natural authority," which is more like common
sense.
> When natural authority manifests itself to me, the material of my thoughts
> and other subtle processes sort of aligns around it or groups together
with
> it in an orderly manner by SHEDDING. when I give up a false way of viewing
> reality because the wool has been taken from my eyes I will be more in
> harmony with those around me.
>
> When I use someone's ideas to be a base, this choice is made by the
> conditioned mind. It is best to approach the stuff of the physical world
> fresh, without preconceptions.
>
> I do not understand why you give these quotes from Madame Blavatsky? Why
do
> you? It is interesting that she refers to an oral tradition. Do you
believe
> her books are a means of conveying this? In my opinion they are no longer
> time -appropriate (if they ever were, which I am not sure of, though I
> suspect they were).
>
> The Baily quote is very interesting. I can see why some people would be
> attracted to her writings, but there is no hope. In my opinion, it is
> pouring from the empty into the void. There is no way to leave out pieces,
> if one even has these pieces, and expect to give someone the whole puzzle.
> Maybe when she was alive, if she had real understanding, she had her ways
to
> convey it. Actually, there is a starter of the yeast which is essential to
> the making of the bread, that cannot be conveyed by the written words.
There
> is much more though, that can be conveyed verbally today, due to modern
> technical language, than could be conveyed before, but there would still
> need to be oral communication. Moreover, once one starts experimenting
with
> certain subtle kinds of material and combining them in various ways, many
> rarified "spiritual"states that are extremely pleasurable can be
> experienced. They are ADDICTIVE, and an innocent person will bond to them
> like a duck to its mother. After this, there is no way to sort it out.
From
> this perspective, I would choose Blavatsky if I had to choose one of the
> two,as her material has a more grainy quality, which is better.
>
> The proper approach is to remove material, not add it (but how would one
> know what to remove, if one even had the will to do so?) This is why a
very
> lengthy and tedious IMPARTIAL study of oneself AS ONE IS is the best
> approach and the fastest. Study this Baily stuff (or Blavatsky) till hell
> freezes over and you still will not be free. There are REASONS for this,
> which I will go into little by little, but the main reason is that it is
> layering material into a person's subjective conditioning in a way that is
> not organized. This material will not fall into place. That is a fantasy.
It
> will go in topsy-turvy and half-hazardly, "like" attracted to "like."
There
> is not an underlying organic connected whole as there is in Christianity,
> for example, as time inappropriate as this religion may be and as many
flaws
> as it has. See below for more.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Morten Nymann Olesen" <global-theosophy@adslhome.dk>
> To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, January 17, 2003 2:02 AM
> Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Shamballa behind facism ?
>
>
> >
> > Hi Wry and all of you,
> >
> > Not bad Wry.
> > But as Blavatsky and Bailey says; - one must be: Ready to accept
> > demonstrated truth...etc.. look at the below quote.
> >
> > So when are the pro-Baileys ready for that - in our present
> international -
> > informations society, with fast transportation, Internet, sattelite TV,
> > clones, cloing, genetic engineering, nano-techonology, robots, CIA on
> > ESP...etc...
>
> WRY: Who knows. Maybe they cannot be ready, but WHY DO YOU CARE? Do you
have
> something better to give us? USE YOUR OWN WORDS. Once we think Bailey and
> not Bailey, or Blavatsky and not Bailey, we are doomed. Why think Bailey
> versus Blavatsky? Better to look at your own body or even a tree. If we
> stick to simple ideas and questions, this can be the beginning of
something
> original. In any case, of course this Bailey stuff applies to modern
> society IF there is real understanding of cosmic elements and materials
and
> how to combine them in such a way that a creative force emerges out of the
> configuration and is able to manifest in such a way that love can walk the
> earth, but again, one starts with the physical ground of ordinary earth,
as
> only there, in the physical earh of ones ordinary materiality, can the
> spiritual earth be discovered, and before one gets to experimentation,
there
> is a lengthy and most arduous period of verification of PHYSICAL MATERIAL
> before one is able to handle ideas. This is why enquiry is so important,
as,
> in this process, only releasing occurs, so it can do no harm, as no new
> material is added. If you or anyone do not understand this message, maybe
> you can hold on to it and read it again. Sincerely, Wry
> >
> > Here is the quote:
> >
> > *******
> > "The difficulty of giving one the Wisdom Religion is dealt with by H. P.
> B.
> > in the Secret Doctrine as follows:
> >
> > Opinion must be reserved because:
> > Complete explanation for initiates only.
> > Only a fragmentary portion of the esoteric meaning given.
> > Only adepts can speak with authority. - S. D., I, 188, 190. II, 55, 90.
> > The teachings are offered as a hypothesis. - II, 469.
> > We must lose sight entirely of:
> > Personalities.
> > Dogmatic beliefs.
> > Special religions. - S. D., I, 3, 4.
> > We must be free from prejudice. - S. D., III, 1. We must also:
> > Be free from conceit.
> > Free from selfishness.
> > Ready to accept demonstrated truth.
> > We must find the highest meaning possible. S. D., III, 487.
> > We must be also non-sectarian. - S. D., III, 110.
> > We must remember the handicap of language. - S. D., I, 197, 290, 293.
> > We must aim to become a disciple. - S. D., I, 188. II, 246. III, 129.
> > We must eventually develop powers. - S. D., I, 518. II, 85.
> > We must lead the life of Brotherhood. S. D., I, 190.
> > We must remember that H. P. B . makes no claim to infallibility. S. D.,
> II,
> > 25 note, 273. I, 293.
> > H. P. B. says:
> >
> > "I speak with 'absolute certainty' only so far as my own personal belief
> is
> > concerned. Those who have not the same warrant for their belief as I
have
> > would be very credulous and foolish to accept it on blind faith... What
I
> do
> > believe in is:
> >
> > The unbroken oral tradition revealed by living divine men during the
> infancy
> > of mankind to the elect among men.
> > That it has reached us unaltered.
> > That the Masters are thoroughly versed in the science based on such
> > uninterrupted teaching." - Lucifer, Vol. V, p. 157.
> > "The Secret Doctrine is no 'authority' per se; but being full of
> quotations
> > and texts from the Sacred Scriptures and philosophies of almost every
> great
> > religion and school, those who belong to any of these axe sure to find
> > support for their arguments on some page or another. There are, however,
> > Theosophists, and of the best and most devoted, who do suffer from such
> > weakness for authority." - Lucifer, Vol. III, p. 157."
> > *******
> > The above is taken from "A Treatise on Cosmic Fire" 1925; Alice A.
Bailey,
> p
> > 481.
> > http://beaskund.helloyou.ws/netnews/bk/fire/fire1192.html
> >
> >
> > This I think is a short verion on the core teaching followed by
> > pro-Blavatskys and pro-Baileys. On these teachings they must agree.
> > But there are of course important "details", which has been written by
> both
> > writers, which are not mentioned in the above quote.
> >
> >
> > from
> > M. Sufilight
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "wry" <wry1111@earthlink.net>
> > To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Friday, January 17, 2003 4:20 AM
> > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Shamballa behind facism ?
> >
> >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Morten Nymann Olesen" <global-theosophy@adslhome.dk>
> > > To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 12:25 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Shamballa behind facism ?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Have you ever wondered why the appr. 1.000.000.000 muslims and their
> > sufi
> > > > teaching are not really mentioned in the books written by Bailey or
> > > > 'dictaed' by what som dare call a MASTER ?
> > > > Have you ever deeply consider the consequences of this ?
> > >
> > > WRY: No, but I have picked my toes while reading cheap magazines.
Same
> > > thing. When you focus this, it will get bigger. Ignorant people need
to
> > make
> > > their own choices about what to read or not read, and even if they are
> > given
> > > the right material, they will not know how to read it anyway. Better
> that
> > > one person, who has a chance to really do something, develops, as this
> can
> > > affect many. What do you think? Wry
> > >
> > >
> > > > from
> > > > M. Sufilight...let there be peace on earth...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: <phillip@esotericastrologer.org>
> > > > To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
> > > > Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 8:26 PM
> > > > Subject: Theos-World Re: Shamballa behind facism ?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > How can, any divine force, - and here the divine force from
> > > > > Shamballa (i.e. (Para)Brahman) with its open heart stimulate the
> > > > > tyrant in people ? Please explain that.
> > > > >
> > > > > Simply put, the First Ray of Will-power is the purest and most
> > > > > potent form of spiritual energy available to Humanity. Humanity
has
> > > > > not redeemed its lower nature yet, or raised its vibrations to the
> > > > > level of this pure force. Therefore the point of least resistance
> > > > > will be Ray One's most materialistic expression in the lower
> > > > > chakras. That is why DK has said that the Hierarchy has taken a
> > > > > calculated risk or words to that effect, to allow this stimulation
> > > > > to occur. As a result Humanity will move very quickly through its
> > > > > evolution in this interim period. Heretofore, the Hierarchy have
> > > > > acted as a protecting shield to Humanity from the force of
> > > > > Shamballa. As I outline in my book The Shamballa Impacts (excuse
the
> > > > > plug), out of all the 5 impacts *direct* to Humanity in the past
18
> > > > > million years, the last three have occurred in the last 200 years!
> > > > > Needless to say that there is somewhat of an acceleration process
> > > > > occurring. And this is tied up with the karma of this planet being
> > > > > a 'laggard' in its spiritual evolution due to the moon chain, and
> > > > > the subsequent 'forced' process of evolution through initiation.
> > > > > Hope this clarifies...
> > > > > P.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>