Re: theos-talk A CALL FOR CIVILITY, AND RESPECTFUL DIALOGUE
May 18, 2012 01:02 PM
by M. Sufilight
Dear William and friends
Thanks...I agree very much with these words by you.
And there will as I see it always be disagreements in our world of duality about whether this or that New Age person, theosophists, esotericist, etc., etc. made this or that fault or not.
The importance aught to be given on how do we promote altruism by our exchanges - and - what do we learn from them about the meaning of life, and how to promote altruism better - and - how do we actually learn how to learn to promote altruism...
IS DENUNCIATION A DUTY?
"We denounce indignantly systems and organisations, evils, social and religious-cant above all: we abstain from denouncing persons."
"We do NOT have to agree with or even like Mr.Leadbeater, but this gives us no right to bring up old slander and gossip to denigrate his personality."
M. Sufilight says:
I find that criticism is allright, as long as it is kept in - what we in general call - a civil tone of voice - seeking documentation for the point of views raised.
The supporters aught of course not without any further notice - betterknowingly think that they themselves know the whole picture of the events and altruistic fruits (or perhaps reather lack of them), so-called, of the events of the person(s) exchanged upon. Neither aught those who voice a criticque about a person or persons do so without any further notice - betterknowingly think that they themselves know the whole picture of the events and altruistic fruits (or perhaps reather lack of them), so-called, of the events of the person(s) exchanged upon. ---- This requires emotional control and compassion to avoid such traps. Neither do we need to assume we know the intentions of those who write here at the forum, when we actually do not know them (!)....Being angry about being told the truth, does neither help much. Altruism is better.
Be can however all of us only do our best. And this is what we in fact do all the time, while we learn...learn how to learn to promote altruism...These words are forwarded generally speaking...
Yes. As Blavatsky said we do not denounce persons. But on the other hand - the Theosophical Society throw wome persons out of the Society and have done so through its years of existence...(! !)
Some grave incidents permanently...others for some reasons not permanently.
But I find it, however, to be a kind of LACK OF COMPASSION AND ALTRUISM that various persons SEEM NOT to be able understand that the Liberal Catholic Church - and various other Shrines DO NOT BELONG ON THE THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY ADYAR COMPOUND. Especially since the Theosophical Society says it promotes FREEDOM OF THOUGHT, (and still(?) that it is non-sectarian). This post should clearly tell the readers why with regard to the Liberal Catholic Church.
And on top of this the administrative leadership of the Theposophical Society in the early 20th century accomplished getting a Christian-like Church from a Christian New Age sect build on the Theospohical Society Adyar compound - compared to all the other fractions of Christian related nature. And this Church organization named the Liberal Catholic Church (which at its artificial roots promoted Male-chauvinism) - has for decades - during various new administrative leaderships and councils, executive commitee's - been in a clear staunch opposition to the original object of equality of the sexes (in opposition to a main object of the TS following as a consequence the original object on promulgation of altruism). An object in the Theosophical Society mentioned from the earliest days of the Theosophical Society. This Church organization named the Liberal Catholic Church has now for decades - in clear opposition to the main objects been Preaching male-chauvinism every day - and - also in december during the Theosophical Society Convent. Male-chauvinism is understood as bad even among many average human beings these days....So the Theosophical Society has had great success? And the Liberal Catholic Church also promoted superstition, with doctrines of its own on bells with chalk and crosses ---
Liturgy (THE CEREMONIES OF THE LIBERAL CATHOLIC RITE (Blue Book) )
About how to bless a Church Bell and other obscure rites. Sectarian - not non-sectarian, mind you.
(Fifteen small crosses should be made on beforehand with chalk on the Bell according to a certain prescribed manner - p. 359 - See LITURGY in the menu - and - then THE CEREMONIES OF THE LIBERAL CATHOLIC RITE (Blue Book) http://kingsgarden.org/English/Organizations/LCC.gb/ )
(See TS Circular from 1878 by Abner Doubleday, where promotion of superstition was against the main objects of the TS --- "Golden Book of the Theosophical Society Af C. Jinarajadasa", page 245 - See books.google.com....). Let us be told otherwise....
["ORIGINAL PROGRAMME" MANUSCRIPT]
"Such was the programme in its broad features. The two chief Founders were not told what they had to do, how they had to bring about and quicken the growth of the Society and results desired; nor had they any definite ideas given them concerning its outward organization-all this being left entirely with themselves. Thus, as the undersigned had no capacity for such work as the mechanical formation and administration of a Society, the management of the latter was left in the hands of Col. H. S. Olcott, then and there elected by the primitive founders and members-President for life. But if the two Founders were not told what they had to do, they were distinctly instructed about what they should never do, what they had to avoid, and what the Society should never become. Church organizations, Christian and Spiritual sects were shown as the future contrasts to our Society."
THE THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY, PREAMBLE - year 1875, october 30th
"To all, however, are alike indispensable, rectitude of principle and conduct, and love of truth and wisdom. No student can win his diploma without undertaking a long course of study and proving a good character; and every handicraftsman has to serve his apprenticeship before he can be journeyman or master. So theosophy, which claims to teach the vital points of science and art, exacts from its adepts an assiduity of purpose, a catholicity of mind, an unselfish devotion, an unflinching courage and perseverance, and a purity of life and thought commensurate with the nature of their self-imposed task, before admitting them into the arcana of nature, and intrusting them with powers not shared by meaner souls.
The founders of the Theosophical Society begin their work with a solemn conviction of its importance. They do not undervalue the difficulties, intrinsic and extrinsic, of the task. Their work is that which the Spiritualists have neglected, the Materialists have not attempted, and the Theologians have misunderstood and undervalued. Starting with a hope, rather than a conviction, of the attainment of their desires, they are animated solely by an earnest purpose to learn the truth, wheresoever it may be found; and esteem no obstacles so serious, no pains so great, as to excuse them for relinquishing it."
"Whatever may be the private opinions of its members, the society has no dogmas to enforce, no creed to disseminate. It is formed neither as a Spiritualistic schism, nor to serve as the foe or friend of any sectarian or philosophic body. Its only axiom is the omnipotence of truth, its only creed a profession of unqualified devotion to its discovery and propagation. In considering the qualifications of applicants for membership, it knows neither race, sex, color, country nor creed."
(That is therefore neither no creed or handful of Churches to disseminate on the TS Adyar Compound....Am I right?)
Let those who like to see Leadbeater eleveated on a higher level than the above texts forwards - refute them - if they are able to do so. Thats is all I have to say.
My own view about something related to all the above is this ....
THE SINGLE FORMULA SYSTEMS - AND - SECTS
We might call the 'Eureka-system' any´system which offers you one ritual for everyone, one belief, one autority-figure, one major tehcnique, (or the six special shrines only technique).
Such systems are not Ways at all. They are better described as poor jokes, told by the ignorant (perhaps in 'good faith')
to the greedy. I talk with directness about this, simply because in speaking about it, as with more obvious infestations,
the ordinary social niceties have to be suspended for the sake of an overall good.
Much can be said about authority figures and those who let themselves be set up as such, or proclaim themselves to be such a one.
Even if they later sort of regret their own statement of being an autority figure - while they with the other hand says - that people
aught to listen to them after all, and, not really to any other person at all - I find their attitude strange and not quite honest.
Let me add:
I do not only sense two "movements" within the (non-sectarian, originally so-called - later deemphasized it seems) Theosophical Society through the decades - but also a six Shrines-"movement" (orthodox theosophy) on the TS Adyar compound. And also a number of Messiah in the flesh "movements".
All the above are of course just my views. I present them from my heart seeking to promote altruism.
I will gladly change them if someone are able to prove them wrong or irrelevant.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 3:10 AM
Subject: theos-talk A CALL FOR CIVILITY, AND RESPECTFUL DIALOGUE
A CALL FOR CIVILITY AND RESPECTFUL DIALOGUE
I for one, and I know that there are many others out there,
take exception and offense at Mr.Jacqua's previous post and
derogatory remarks about Dr. Annie Besant and Mr.Leadbeater.
First there are many testimonials to the integrity and dedication of Dr.Besant. The following link will provide testimonials to the integrity of Mr.Leadbeater, if one is concerned in discovering the
TRUTH of things, and not merely rehashing unproven slander.
Mr. Leadbeaater was indeed a controversial figure, BUT
NO PROVEN FACTS OR CONVICTION WERE EVER established, just slander,
innuendo, and viscious gossip.
We do NOT have to agree with or even like Mr.Leadbeater, but this gives us no right to bring up old slander and gossip to denigrate his personality.
We have an inherent right to dis-agree with one another, that is NOT in question. But to resort to emotional, biased flaming, and personal attacks does NOTHING to lend credibility to one's argument.
Dr. Besant and Mr.Leadbeater were unique products of their time. They
in good faith followed what they percieved to be their special mission. Many Theosophists around the world hold them in great esteem for the work they did. No doubt, there will always be great differences of opinion among Theosophists about them, thats all OK. We do NOT have to agree. But we should remain in respectful dialogue and seek a further understanding. Resorting to personal attacks, flaming, innuendo and gossip are never conducive to respecrtful dialogue.
We CAN dis-agree without being dis-agreeable.
One can only hope that Theosophists will keep the tenor of their
discussions on a level that reflects the rational, thoughtful, and compassionate human beings we claim to be.
Cordially and Fraternally;
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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