Theos-Talk Archives (July 2010 Message tt00028)

I agree a lot on this.


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Cass Silva 
  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2010 2:16 AM
  Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: What is extreme?


    


  Unfortunately the statement, there is no religion higher than truth is like a 
  red flag to a bull.  Religionists believe that there is no truth higher than 
  religion.  

  >
  >Cass
  >
  >From: nhcareyta <nhcareyta@yahoo.com.au>
  >To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
  >Sent: Tue, 6 July, 2010 1:57:55 PM
  >Subject: Theos-World Re: What is extreme?
  >
  >  
  >Dear Do Thi Thuan
  >
  >Thank you for your posting and for the opportunity to 
  >explain for your benefit why some serious students of 
  >Theosophy take exception to the pronouncements of certain theosophical leaders 
  >and writers.
  >
  >The motto of the Adyar Theosophical Society is Satyam Nasti 
  >Paro Dharma; There is no religion higher than truth.
  >
  >Out of respect for that high principle I offer the following 
  >comments about Bishop CW Leadbeater, last posted in this 
  >forum 18 months ago, for your consideration. 
  >
  >They are unfortunately not pleasant, but nonetheless they 
  >are the truth
  >
  >Bishop Leadbeater clearly lied and was fraudulent in
  >numerous matters of determinable and demonstrable fact.
  >
  >He claimed to be representing Madame Blavatsky's version of
  >Theosophy. On most subjects he did not.
  >>http://www.blavatskyarchives.com/tontitlepage.pdf<
  >
  >He claimed to be in direct contact with Madame Blavatsky's
  >masters.
  >Given the utterly contradictory accounts of cosmogonies
  >and cosmologies, any reasonable assessment would
  >manifestly demonstrate that he was not.
  >>http://blavatskyarchives.com/ton1.pdf<
  >
  >Upon meeting with Dr Besant, a few years after he had joined
  >the Adyar Theosophical Society, he claimed to have been born in
  >the year of her birth, 1847. Clearly he was not.
  >According to numerous British records including birth certificate,
  >Church records and even census forms filled out by himself,
  >he was born in 1854. He obviously lied to fabricate a putative
  >"occult" connection between himself and Dr Besant.
  >
  >Furthermore, he claimed to have seen the Mahatma M in 1851.
  >Demonstrably another consciously concocted lie or fraud,
  >this time to coincide with Madame Blavatsky's actual recorded
  >sighting.
  >
  >He claimed to have attended the prestigious British
  >universities of Oxford and Cambridge. He did not.
  >
  >He claimed his father was the senior executive of a British
  >rail company.
  >He was actually one of its bookkeepers.
  >
  >Psychically, he claimed to have seen a sophisticated civilisation
  >on Mars, complete with many specific details. Clearly he did not.
  >
  >In the "theosophical" church he helped found, with teachings and
  >mindset so utterly opposed to the masters he claimed contact with,
  >he stated women were not fit to perform the sacraments due to
  >their inappropriate vehicles.
  >
  >In "Occult Chemistry" he claimed psychic vision of the inner
  >workings of the atomic world.
  >With the exception of one obscure scientist, his
  >pronouncements have little credibility and are
  >ridiculed as nonsense.
  >>http://www.chem.yale.edu/~chem125/125/history99/8Occult/OccultAtoms.h
  >tml<
  >
  >He claimed psychic vision of the atom and drew its picture,
  >claiming it as his own. It was actually a copy of one imagined by
  >Babbit years earlier. Another fraud.
  >
  >In his book "Lives of Alcyone" he constantly changed his
  >putative "psychic" versions of peoples' past lives as they came in
  >and out of his personal favour.
  >
  >He claimed in his writings to meet with the "Lord of the World."
  >A pathological liar and paedophile meeting with the "Supreme
  >Director" of this globe? Really?
  >
  >And the list goes on and on. Whether we term these indiscretions
  >as untruths, lies or fraud they are indisputable matters of fact,
  >which only the most ardent apologist would deny or avoid.
  >
  >Bishop Leadbeater has been proven far and beyond any
  >reasonable doubt to have lied to and manipulated and deceived
  >his followers on many occasions and in many ways.
  >
  >Moreover, the apologists' arguing that his self-confessed,
  >sexual activities with small boys was actually training them
  >in sex magic is sickening and perverted in itself.
  >One wonders whether these apologists and supporters are
  >themselves paedophiles, defending the indefensible.
  >
  >If the bad Bishop were practicing sex magic with these boys, a
  >heinous practice in itself with powerless young children, this
  >would/should have been performed in a ceremonial and
  >ritualistic environment, complete with prescribed formulae i.e.
  >words, chants, invocations/evocations, ceremonial objects etc
  >in a ceremony that would last for perhaps a few hours.
  >His self-confessed climbing naked into bed with a naked
  >young boy whilst "teaching" him masturbation hardly qualifies
  >as sex magic.
  >It was and is paedophilia, to anyone with any intelligence,
  >decency and integrity.
  >
  >Why anyone would want to trust and even defend anything
  >this man did and wrote is a matter of considerable incredulity,
  >until one understands the pernicious nature of the belief-based,
  >blind, devotional mindset. .
  >
  >Simply because he wrote in lyrical, "explanatory", romantic,
  >authoritarian tones does not validate his pronouncements,
  >unless of course our blind, devotional mindset clamours for
  >the simplicity, certainty and "security" of authority, and the
  >glamour of romance.
  >
  >He was simply a common liar and fraud, and some people
  >were and are entirely enamoured by him and his writings.
  >Enamoured and under a glamour, as was Dr Besant in allowing
  >him re-entry into the Society he so disgraced.
  >
  >Do, these unpleasant facts are why so many serious students have dismissed much 
  >of Bishop Leadbeater's writings as fantasy and why 
  >
  >so many more have resigned from the Adyar Society over the past 100 years. 
  >
  >Are you aware also that the Adyar Publishing centre has 
  >removed many of the more outrageous and outlandish statements 
  >from Bishop Leadbeater's books so as to make them more appealing
  >to a gullible reader. Is this not the ultimate in dishonesty and 
  >deceit?
  >
  >If for political reasons the original Society cannot find 
  >the honesty and integrity to remove Bishop Leadbeater's works 
  >from its publishing houses and bookshops then it will remain impoverished in 
  >truth, and in violation of its motto.
  >
  >Kind regards
  >Nigel
  >
  >--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Thuan Do <dothuan@...> wrote:
  >>
  >> I don't like it when someone badmouth the Theosophical society'leaders such as 
  >>Ms Besant, Mr. Leadbeater, and Mr. Krisnamurti who wrote many books that I like 
  >>to read. I feel that the person who badmouthed those people know too little to 
  >>understand and talk about those writers/leaders!
  >> 
  >> Do Thi Thuan
  >> http://anhduong.net
  >> http://hoangvan.net
  >> http://biendongnama.tk/
  >> ____________________"Bo Thi, Bac Ai, Thuong Yeu, Diu Dang" la 4 chia khoa de 
  >>vao cua dao
  >> 
  >> 
  >> --- On Mon, 6/28/10, MKR <mkr777@...> wrote:
  >> 
  >> > From: MKR <mkr777@...>
  >> > Subject: Re: Theos-World What is extreme?
  >> > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
  >> > Date: Monday, June 28, 2010, 8:00 PM
  >> > 
  >> > 
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  >> > I will leave it to the readers to judge your
  >> > statements in this message and
  >> > 
  >> > others. When comments become too personal, then it turns
  >> > off many in the
  >> > 
  >> > list and in the past many have unsubscribed. We all look
  >> > forward to
  >> > 
  >> > increased subscription and participation and we have to do
  >> > everything we can
  >> > 
  >> > towards this objective.
  >> > 
  >> > 
  >> > 
  >> > MKR
  >> > 
  >> > 
  >> > 
  >> > On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 4:58 PM, Frank Reitemeyer
  >> > 
  >> > <ringding2010@...>wrote:
  >> > 
  >> > 
  >> > 
  >> > >
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  >> > >
  >> > 
  >> > > mkr, I really do not understand, what you write.
  >> > 
  >> > > To me my statement is the most normal and most natural
  >> > thing, at least in
  >> > 
  >> > > the realm of theosophy.
  >> > 
  >> > > What is "extreme"? And why?
  >> > 
  >> > >
  >> > 
  >> > > On the contrary, I find statements extreme, that saw
  >> > doubt on the little
  >> > 
  >> > > ones, the chelas and the messengers.
  >> > 
  >> > >
  >> > 
  >> > > A group which has delevoped virtues and paramitas, has
  >> > a good, natural and
  >> > 
  >> > > healthy aura, good group karma.
  >> > 
  >> > > This good karma **forces** the masters of wisdom to
  >> > help. I know it.
  >> > 
  >> > >
  >> > 
  >> > > On the other hand, a group, which sticks on the
  >> > psychic, emontional and
  >> > 
  >> > > lower intellectual (bear in mind the many teachers in
  >> > the TM!) level,
  >> > 
  >> > > creates bad karma and no master is allowed to help.
  >> > 
  >> > > To me it is a matter of fact.
  >> > 
  >> > >
  >> > 
  >> > > Also a matter of fact, that in most theosophical
  >> > circles (at least I know
  >> > 
  >> > > of at first hand or from trusted friends) HPB is
  >> > combatted, conscious and
  >> > 
  >> > > unconscious. Sins are praised as tolerance, progress
  >> > and all that neo
  >> > 
  >> > > liberal gay gender brainwashing.
  >> > 
  >> > >
  >> > 
  >> > > Including the poison of absolute relativism of the
  >> > Krishnamurti-ites, no
  >> > 
  >> > > matter, if K himself was such a relativist, as I think
  >> > he was.
  >> > 
  >> > > Although he had some good points, he was not a
  >> > theosophist, as he did
  >> > 
  >> > > nothing what HPB was working for.
  >> > 
  >> > > He did much good as an antidot to the false and fake
  >> > claims of Besant and
  >> > 
  >> > > Leadbeater, but not more.
  >> > 
  >> > >
  >> > 
  >> > > One should bear in mind that the true successors of
  >> > HPB were able to show
  >> > 
  >> > > and proof their pupils that they are able to receive
  >> > divine powers, while in
  >> > 
  >> > > the Besant and Leadbeater pseudo theosophical cult
  >> > there were (as in
  >> > 
  >> > > communism and marxism) only rhetoric claims, only
  >> > words, never deeds.
  >> > 
  >> > > Only blind believe. Their alleged chelas were picked
  >> > up at night for an
  >> > 
  >> > > astral flight to the Maha Chohan, the Lord of the
  >> > world, the logos at what
  >> > 
  >> > > else absurde nonsense, but the chelas had no knowledge
  >> > about it. Besant and
  >> > 
  >> > > Leadbeater told it next morning at breakfast.
  >> > 
  >> > >
  >> > 
  >> > > And the same psycho terror was managed later on at
  >> > Covina by the OSS false
  >> > 
  >> > > flag operations of Conger and Long, who persecuted the
  >> > chelas of the
  >> > 
  >> > > Purucker, claiming that they, the lay chelas of the
  >> > first degrees, are the
  >> > 
  >> > > true successors.
  >> > 
  >> > >
  >> > 
  >> > > I find it most extreme, that such black magic and
  >> > Jesuitic machinations
  >> > 
  >> > > within the Theosophical Movement seem not to bother
  >> > you.
  >> > 
  >> > >
  >> > 
  >> > > To me the present organizations like Adyar TS, ULT and
  >> > Pasadena TS are the
  >> > 
  >> > > most extreme possible organizations against HPB.
  >> > 
  >> > >
  >> > 
  >> > > In that they are the true successor of the Vatican,
  >> > which is the most
  >> > 
  >> > > extreme possible organization against Christ.
  >> > 
  >> > >
  >> > 
  >> > > And that is the reason why the present incompetent
  >> > leaders of that
  >> > 
  >> > > organizations will not join internet, they want
  >> > continue their augeas
  >> > 
  >> > > staples, continue prayer and sermonizing ("If you
  >> > begin to think, master
  >> > 
  >> > > will make you ill!") instead of teaching.
  >> > 
  >> > >
  >> > 
  >> > > Such persons like Radha Burnier and John Algeo would
  >> > be the first persons
  >> > 
  >> > > on my list, which I would kick ou, if I were President
  >> > for a week.
  >> > 
  >> > > Because they destroy the spirit of HPB and replace it
  >> > with cant, relativism
  >> > 
  >> > > and a good portion of mental confusion, which prevents
  >> > spiritual insight.
  >> > 
  >> > >
  >> > 
  >> > > If Christians are known by their fruits, by what will
  >> > theosophists be
  >> > 
  >> > > known?
  >> > 
  >> > >
  >> > 
  >> > > As my "extreme" statement says nothing more
  >> > than the many statements of de
  >> > 
  >> > > Purucker in the 1920'ies and 1930'ies (compare
  >> > his "Messages to
  >> > 
  >> > > Concentions"), were he said that around 1930 all
  >> > theosophical groups have
  >> > 
  >> > > turned to the dark side, will you regard de
  >> > Purucker's statements also as
  >> > 
  >> > > extreme?
  >> > 
  >> > >
  >> > 
  >> > > So what is the definition of extreme?
  >> > 
  >> > >
  >> > 
  >> > > Are all who remain tru to the spirit of HPB are
  >> > extreme? Or
  >> > 
  >> > > fundamentalistic?
  >> > 
  >> > >
  >> > 
  >> > > I am really puzzled now.
  >> > 
  >> > >
  >> > 
  >> > > Frank
  >> > 
  >> > >
  >> > 
  >> > > ----- Original Message -----
  >> > 
  >> > > From: MKR
  >> > 
  >> > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
  >> > <theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com>
  >> > 
  >> > > Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 9:58 PM
  >> > 
  >> > > Subject: Re: Theos-World Adyar School of Wisdom -
  >> > 2010/11
  >> > 
  >> > >
  >> > 
  >> > > I think that this is a little bit going too far. While
  >> > we may disagree on
  >> > 
  >> > > many things, it does no good to anyone in making
  >> > extreme statements. There
  >> > 
  >> > > is much work to be done in today's world and
  >> > individual theosophists are
  >> > 
  >> > > the
  >> > 
  >> > > ones who can make a lot of contributions. Let us hope
  >> > we all succeed in
  >> > 
  >> > > moving theosophy in the world of today.
  >> > 
  >> > >
  >> > 
  >> > > MKR
  >> > 
  >> > >
  >> > 
  >> > > On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 1:28 PM, Frank Reitemeyer
  >> > 
  >> > > <ringding2010@...
  >> > <ringding2010%40t-online.de>>wrote:
  >> > 
  >> > >
  >> > 
  >> > > I agree. Instead allowing the psychics, the liars, the
  >> > perverts to rule
  >> > 
  >> > > wihtin the Theosophical Movement, the little one must
  >> > be protected.
  >> > 
  >> > > For that a strong leader is needed. A strong leader is
  >> > the result of good
  >> > 
  >> > > karma.
  >> > 
  >> > >
  >> > 
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