Theos-Talk Archives (July 2010 Message tt00017)

Dear Do Thi Thuan

Thank you for your posting and for the opportunity to 
explain for your benefit why some serious students of 
Theosophy take exception to the pronouncements of certain theosophical leaders and writers.

The motto of the Adyar Theosophical Society is Satyam Nasti 
Paro Dharma; There is no religion higher than truth.

Out of  respect for that high principle I offer the following 
comments about Bishop CW Leadbeater, last posted in this 
forum 18 months ago, for your consideration. 

They are unfortunately not pleasant, but nonetheless they 
are the truth

Bishop Leadbeater clearly lied and was fraudulent in
numerous matters of determinable and demonstrable fact.

He claimed to be representing Madame Blavatsky's version of
Theosophy. On most subjects he did not.
>http://www.blavatskyarchives.com/tontitlepage.pdf<

He claimed to be in direct contact with Madame Blavatsky's
masters.
Given the utterly contradictory accounts of cosmogonies
and cosmologies, any reasonable assessment would
manifestly demonstrate that he was not.
>http://blavatskyarchives.com/ton1.pdf<

Upon meeting with Dr Besant, a few years after he had joined
the Adyar Theosophical Society, he claimed to have been born in
the year of her birth, 1847. Clearly he was not.
According to numerous British records including birth certificate,
Church records and even census forms filled out by himself,
he was born in 1854. He obviously lied to fabricate a putative
"occult" connection between himself and Dr Besant.

Furthermore, he claimed to have seen the Mahatma M in 1851.
Demonstrably another consciously concocted lie or fraud,
this time to coincide with Madame Blavatsky's actual recorded
sighting.

He claimed to have attended the prestigious British
universities of Oxford and Cambridge. He did not.

He claimed his father was the senior executive of a British
rail company.
He was actually one of its bookkeepers.

Psychically, he claimed to have seen a sophisticated civilisation
on Mars, complete with many specific details. Clearly he did not.

In the "theosophical" church he helped found, with teachings and
mindset so utterly opposed to the masters he claimed contact with,
he stated women were not fit to perform the sacraments due to
their inappropriate vehicles.

In "Occult Chemistry" he claimed psychic vision of the inner
workings of the atomic world.
With the exception of one obscure scientist, his
pronouncements have little credibility and are
ridiculed as nonsense.
>http://www.chem.yale.edu/~chem125/125/history99/8Occult/OccultAtoms.h
tml<

He claimed psychic vision of the atom and drew its picture,
claiming it as his own. It was actually a copy of one imagined by
Babbit years earlier. Another fraud.

In his book "Lives of Alcyone" he constantly changed his
putative "psychic" versions of peoples' past lives as they came in
and out of his personal favour.

He claimed in his writings to meet with the "Lord of the World."
A pathological liar and paedophile meeting with the "Supreme
Director" of this globe? Really?

And the list goes on and on. Whether we term these indiscretions
as untruths, lies or fraud they are indisputable matters of fact,
which only the most ardent apologist would deny or avoid.

Bishop Leadbeater has been proven far and beyond any
reasonable doubt to have lied to and manipulated and deceived
his followers on many occasions and in many ways.

Moreover, the apologists' arguing that his self-confessed,
sexual activities with small boys was actually training them
in sex magic is sickening and perverted in itself.
One wonders whether these apologists and supporters are
themselves paedophiles, defending the indefensible.

If the bad Bishop were practicing sex magic with these boys, a
heinous practice in itself with powerless young children, this
would/should have been performed in a ceremonial and
ritualistic environment, complete with prescribed formulae i.e.
words, chants, invocations/evocations, ceremonial objects etc
in a ceremony that would last for perhaps a few hours.
His self-confessed climbing naked into bed with a naked
young boy whilst "teaching" him masturbation hardly qualifies
as sex magic.
It was and is paedophilia, to anyone with any intelligence,
decency and integrity.

Why anyone would want to trust and even defend anything
this man did and wrote is a matter of considerable incredulity,
until one understands the pernicious nature of the belief-based,
blind, devotional mindset. .

Simply because he wrote in lyrical, "explanatory", romantic,
authoritarian tones does not validate his pronouncements,
unless of course our blind, devotional mindset clamours for
the simplicity, certainty and "security" of authority, and the
glamour of romance.

He was simply a common liar and fraud, and some people
were and are entirely enamoured by him and his writings.
Enamoured and under a glamour, as was Dr Besant in allowing
him re-entry into the Society he so disgraced.

Do, these unpleasant facts are why so many serious students have dismissed much of Bishop Leadbeater's writings as fantasy and why 
so many more have resigned from the Adyar Society over the past 100 years. 

Are you aware also that the Adyar Publishing centre has 
removed many of the more outrageous and outlandish statements 
from Bishop Leadbeater's books so as to make them more appealing
to a gullible reader. Is this not the ultimate in dishonesty and 
deceit?

If for political reasons the original Society cannot find 
the honesty and integrity to remove Bishop Leadbeater's works 
from its publishing houses and bookshops then it will remain impoverished in truth, and in violation of its motto.

Kind regards
Nigel



--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Thuan Do <dothuan@...> wrote:
>
> I don't like it when someone badmouth the Theosophical society'leaders such as Ms Besant, Mr. Leadbeater, and Mr. Krisnamurti who wrote many books that I like to read. I feel that the person who badmouthed those people know too little to understand and talk about those writers/leaders!
> 
> Do Thi Thuan
> http://anhduong.net
> http://hoangvan.net
> http://biendongnama.tk/
> ____________________"Bo Thi, Bac Ai, Thuong Yeu, Diu Dang" la 4 chia khoa de vao cua dao
> 
> 
> --- On Mon, 6/28/10, MKR <mkr777@...> wrote:
> 
> > From: MKR <mkr777@...>
> > Subject: Re: Theos-World What is extreme?
> > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Monday, June 28, 2010, 8:00 PM
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
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> > 
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> >  
> > Â 
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> >   
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> >     
> >       
> >       
> >       I will leave it to the readers to judge your
> > statements in this message and
> > 
> > others. When comments become too personal, then it turns
> > off many in the
> > 
> > list and in the past many have unsubscribed. We all look
> > forward to
> > 
> > increased subscription and participation and we have to do
> > everything we can
> > 
> > towards this objective.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > MKR
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 4:58 PM, Frank Reitemeyer
> > 
> > <ringding2010@...>wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > >
> > 
> > >
> > 
> > > mkr, I really do not understand, what you write.
> > 
> > > To me my statement is the most normal and most natural
> > thing, at least in
> > 
> > > the realm of theosophy.
> > 
> > > What is "extreme"? And why?
> > 
> > >
> > 
> > > On the contrary, I find statements extreme, that saw
> > doubt on the little
> > 
> > > ones, the chelas and the messengers.
> > 
> > >
> > 
> > > A group which has delevoped virtues and paramitas, has
> > a good, natural and
> > 
> > > healthy aura, good group karma.
> > 
> > > This good karma **forces** the masters of wisdom to
> > help. I know it.
> > 
> > >
> > 
> > > On the other hand, a group, which sticks on the
> > psychic, emontional and
> > 
> > > lower intellectual (bear in mind the many teachers in
> > the TM!) level,
> > 
> > > creates bad karma and no master is allowed to help.
> > 
> > > To me it is a matter of fact.
> > 
> > >
> > 
> > > Also a matter of fact, that in most theosophical
> > circles (at least I know
> > 
> > > of at first hand or from trusted friends) HPB is
> > combatted, conscious and
> > 
> > > unconscious. Sins are praised as tolerance, progress
> > and all that neo
> > 
> > > liberal gay gender brainwashing.
> > 
> > >
> > 
> > > Including the poison of absolute relativism of the
> > Krishnamurti-ites, no
> > 
> > > matter, if K himself was such a relativist, as I think
> > he was.
> > 
> > > Although he had some good points, he was not a
> > theosophist, as he did
> > 
> > > nothing what HPB was working for.
> > 
> > > He did much good as an antidot to the false and fake
> > claims of Besant and
> > 
> > > Leadbeater, but not more.
> > 
> > >
> > 
> > > One should bear in mind that the true successors of
> > HPB were able to show
> > 
> > > and proof their pupils that they are able to receive
> > divine powers, while in
> > 
> > > the Besant and Leadbeater pseudo theosophical cult
> > there were (as in
> > 
> > > communism and marxism) only rhetoric claims, only
> > words, never deeds.
> > 
> > > Only blind believe. Their alleged chelas were picked
> > up at night for an
> > 
> > > astral flight to the Maha Chohan, the Lord of the
> > world, the logos at what
> > 
> > > else absurde nonsense, but the chelas had no knowledge
> > about it. Besant and
> > 
> > > Leadbeater told it next morning at breakfast.
> > 
> > >
> > 
> > > And the same psycho terror was managed later on at
> > Covina by the OSS false
> > 
> > > flag operations of Conger and Long, who persecuted the
> > chelas of the
> > 
> > > Purucker, claiming that they, the lay chelas of the
> > first degrees, are the
> > 
> > > true successors.
> > 
> > >
> > 
> > > I find it most extreme, that such black magic and
> > Jesuitic machinations
> > 
> > > within the Theosophical Movement seem not to bother
> > you.
> > 
> > >
> > 
> > > To me the present organizations like Adyar TS, ULT and
> > Pasadena TS are the
> > 
> > > most extreme possible organizations against HPB.
> > 
> > >
> > 
> > > In that they are the true successor of the Vatican,
> > which is the most
> > 
> > > extreme possible organization against Christ.
> > 
> > >
> > 
> > > And that is the reason why the present incompetent
> > leaders of that
> > 
> > > organizations will not join internet, they want
> > continue their augeas
> > 
> > > staples, continue prayer and sermonizing ("If you
> > begin to think, master
> > 
> > > will make you ill!") instead of teaching.
> > 
> > >
> > 
> > > Such persons like Radha Burnier and John Algeo would
> > be the first persons
> > 
> > > on my list, which I would kick ou, if I were President
> > for a week.
> > 
> > > Because they destroy the spirit of HPB and replace it
> > with cant, relativism
> > 
> > > and a good portion of mental confusion, which prevents
> > spiritual insight.
> > 
> > >
> > 
> > > If Christians are known by their fruits, by what will
> > theosophists be
> > 
> > > known?
> > 
> > >
> > 
> > > As my "extreme" statement says nothing more
> > than the many statements of de
> > 
> > > Purucker in the 1920'ies and 1930'ies (compare
> > his "Messages to
> > 
> > > Concentions"), were he said that around 1930 all
> > theosophical groups have
> > 
> > > turned to the dark side, will you regard de
> > Purucker's statements also as
> > 
> > > extreme?
> > 
> > >
> > 
> > > So what is the definition of extreme?
> > 
> > >
> > 
> > > Are all who remain tru to the spirit of HPB are
> > extreme? Or
> > 
> > > fundamentalistic?
> > 
> > >
> > 
> > > I am really puzzled now.
> > 
> > >
> > 
> > > Frank
> > 
> > >
> > 
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > 
> > > From: MKR
> > 
> > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > <theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com>
> > 
> > > Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 9:58 PM
> > 
> > > Subject: Re: Theos-World Adyar School of Wisdom -
> > 2010/11
> > 
> > >
> > 
> > > I think that this is a little bit going too far. While
> > we may disagree on
> > 
> > > many things, it does no good to anyone in making
> > extreme statements. There
> > 
> > > is much work to be done in today's world and
> > individual theosophists are
> > 
> > > the
> > 
> > > ones who can make a lot of contributions. Let us hope
> > we all succeed in
> > 
> > > moving theosophy in the world of today.
> > 
> > >
> > 
> > > MKR
> > 
> > >
> > 
> > > On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 1:28 PM, Frank Reitemeyer
> > 
> > > <ringding2010@...
> > <ringding2010%40t-online.de>>wrote:
> > 
> > >
> > 
> > > I agree. Instead allowing the psychics, the liars, the
> > perverts to rule
> > 
> > > wihtin the Theosophical Movement, the little one must
> > be protected.
> > 
> > > For that a strong leader is needed. A strong leader is
> > the result of good
> > 
> > > karma.
> > 
> > >
> > 
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > 
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> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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