Theos-Talk Archives (July 2010 Message tt00020)

Unfortunately the statement, there is no religion higher than truth is like a 
red flag to a bull. Religionists believe that there is no truth higher than 
religion. 

>
>Cass
>
>From: nhcareyta <nhcareyta@yahoo.com.au>
>To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
>Sent: Tue, 6 July, 2010 1:57:55 PM
>Subject: Theos-World Re: What is extreme?
>
>Â 
>Dear Do Thi Thuan
>
>Thank you for your posting and for the opportunity to 
>explain for your benefit why some serious students of 
>Theosophy take exception to the pronouncements of certain theosophical leaders 
>and writers.
>
>The motto of the Adyar Theosophical Society is Satyam Nasti 
>Paro Dharma; There is no religion higher than truth.
>
>Out of respect for that high principle I offer the following 
>comments about Bishop CW Leadbeater, last posted in this 
>forum 18 months ago, for your consideration. 
>
>They are unfortunately not pleasant, but nonetheless they 
>are the truth
>
>Bishop Leadbeater clearly lied and was fraudulent in
>numerous matters of determinable and demonstrable fact.
>
>He claimed to be representing Madame Blavatsky's version of
>Theosophy. On most subjects he did not.
>>http://www.blavatskyarchives.com/tontitlepage.pdf<
>
>He claimed to be in direct contact with Madame Blavatsky's
>masters.
>Given the utterly contradictory accounts of cosmogonies
>and cosmologies, any reasonable assessment would
>manifestly demonstrate that he was not.
>>http://blavatskyarchives.com/ton1.pdf<
>
>Upon meeting with Dr Besant, a few years after he had joined
>the Adyar Theosophical Society, he claimed to have been born in
>the year of her birth, 1847. Clearly he was not.
>According to numerous British records including birth certificate,
>Church records and even census forms filled out by himself,
>he was born in 1854. He obviously lied to fabricate a putative
>"occult" connection between himself and Dr Besant.
>
>Furthermore, he claimed to have seen the Mahatma M in 1851.
>Demonstrably another consciously concocted lie or fraud,
>this time to coincide with Madame Blavatsky's actual recorded
>sighting.
>
>He claimed to have attended the prestigious British
>universities of Oxford and Cambridge. He did not.
>
>He claimed his father was the senior executive of a British
>rail company.
>He was actually one of its bookkeepers.
>
>Psychically, he claimed to have seen a sophisticated civilisation
>on Mars, complete with many specific details. Clearly he did not.
>
>In the "theosophical" church he helped found, with teachings and
>mindset so utterly opposed to the masters he claimed contact with,
>he stated women were not fit to perform the sacraments due to
>their inappropriate vehicles.
>
>In "Occult Chemistry" he claimed psychic vision of the inner
>workings of the atomic world.
>With the exception of one obscure scientist, his
>pronouncements have little credibility and are
>ridiculed as nonsense.
>>http://www.chem.yale.edu/~chem125/125/history99/8Occult/OccultAtoms.h
>tml<
>
>He claimed psychic vision of the atom and drew its picture,
>claiming it as his own. It was actually a copy of one imagined by
>Babbit years earlier. Another fraud.
>
>In his book "Lives of Alcyone" he constantly changed his
>putative "psychic" versions of peoples' past lives as they came in
>and out of his personal favour.
>
>He claimed in his writings to meet with the "Lord of the World."
>A pathological liar and paedophile meeting with the "Supreme
>Director" of this globe? Really?
>
>And the list goes on and on. Whether we term these indiscretions
>as untruths, lies or fraud they are indisputable matters of fact,
>which only the most ardent apologist would deny or avoid.
>
>Bishop Leadbeater has been proven far and beyond any
>reasonable doubt to have lied to and manipulated and deceived
>his followers on many occasions and in many ways.
>
>Moreover, the apologists' arguing that his self-confessed,
>sexual activities with small boys was actually training them
>in sex magic is sickening and perverted in itself.
>One wonders whether these apologists and supporters are
>themselves paedophiles, defending the indefensible.
>
>If the bad Bishop were practicing sex magic with these boys, a
>heinous practice in itself with powerless young children, this
>would/should have been performed in a ceremonial and
>ritualistic environment, complete with prescribed formulae i.e.
>words, chants, invocations/evocations, ceremonial objects etc
>in a ceremony that would last for perhaps a few hours.
>His self-confessed climbing naked into bed with a naked
>young boy whilst "teaching" him masturbation hardly qualifies
>as sex magic.
>It was and is paedophilia, to anyone with any intelligence,
>decency and integrity.
>
>Why anyone would want to trust and even defend anything
>this man did and wrote is a matter of considerable incredulity,
>until one understands the pernicious nature of the belief-based,
>blind, devotional mindset. .
>
>Simply because he wrote in lyrical, "explanatory", romantic,
>authoritarian tones does not validate his pronouncements,
>unless of course our blind, devotional mindset clamours for
>the simplicity, certainty and "security" of authority, and the
>glamour of romance.
>
>He was simply a common liar and fraud, and some people
>were and are entirely enamoured by him and his writings.
>Enamoured and under a glamour, as was Dr Besant in allowing
>him re-entry into the Society he so disgraced.
>
>Do, these unpleasant facts are why so many serious students have dismissed much 
>of Bishop Leadbeater's writings as fantasy and why 
>
>so many more have resigned from the Adyar Society over the past 100 years. 
>
>Are you aware also that the Adyar Publishing centre has 
>removed many of the more outrageous and outlandish statements 
>from Bishop Leadbeater's books so as to make them more appealing
>to a gullible reader. Is this not the ultimate in dishonesty and 
>deceit?
>
>If for political reasons the original Society cannot find 
>the honesty and integrity to remove Bishop Leadbeater's works 
>from its publishing houses and bookshops then it will remain impoverished in 
>truth, and in violation of its motto.
>
>Kind regards
>Nigel
>
>--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Thuan Do <dothuan@...> wrote:
>>
>> I don't like it when someone badmouth the Theosophical society'leaders such as 
>>Ms Besant, Mr. Leadbeater, and Mr. Krisnamurti who wrote many books that I like 
>>to read. I feel that the person who badmouthed those people know too little to 
>>understand and talk about those writers/leaders!
>> 
>> Do Thi Thuan
>> http://anhduong.net
>> http://hoangvan.net
>> http://biendongnama.tk/
>> ____________________"Bo Thi, Bac Ai, Thuong Yeu, Diu Dang" la 4 chia khoa de 
>>vao cua dao
>> 
>> 
>> --- On Mon, 6/28/10, MKR <mkr777@...> wrote:
>> 
>> > From: MKR <mkr777@...>
>> > Subject: Re: Theos-World What is extreme?
>> > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
>> > Date: Monday, June 28, 2010, 8:00 PM
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
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>> > ÃÂ
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>> > 
>> > I will leave it to the readers to judge your
>> > statements in this message and
>> > 
>> > others. When comments become too personal, then it turns
>> > off many in the
>> > 
>> > list and in the past many have unsubscribed. We all look
>> > forward to
>> > 
>> > increased subscription and participation and we have to do
>> > everything we can
>> > 
>> > towards this objective.
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > MKR
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 4:58 PM, Frank Reitemeyer
>> > 
>> > <ringding2010@...>wrote:
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > >
>> > 
>> > >
>> > 
>> > > mkr, I really do not understand, what you write.
>> > 
>> > > To me my statement is the most normal and most natural
>> > thing, at least in
>> > 
>> > > the realm of theosophy.
>> > 
>> > > What is "extreme"? And why?
>> > 
>> > >
>> > 
>> > > On the contrary, I find statements extreme, that saw
>> > doubt on the little
>> > 
>> > > ones, the chelas and the messengers.
>> > 
>> > >
>> > 
>> > > A group which has delevoped virtues and paramitas, has
>> > a good, natural and
>> > 
>> > > healthy aura, good group karma.
>> > 
>> > > This good karma **forces** the masters of wisdom to
>> > help. I know it.
>> > 
>> > >
>> > 
>> > > On the other hand, a group, which sticks on the
>> > psychic, emontional and
>> > 
>> > > lower intellectual (bear in mind the many teachers in
>> > the TM!) level,
>> > 
>> > > creates bad karma and no master is allowed to help.
>> > 
>> > > To me it is a matter of fact.
>> > 
>> > >
>> > 
>> > > Also a matter of fact, that in most theosophical
>> > circles (at least I know
>> > 
>> > > of at first hand or from trusted friends) HPB is
>> > combatted, conscious and
>> > 
>> > > unconscious. Sins are praised as tolerance, progress
>> > and all that neo
>> > 
>> > > liberal gay gender brainwashing.
>> > 
>> > >
>> > 
>> > > Including the poison of absolute relativism of the
>> > Krishnamurti-ites, no
>> > 
>> > > matter, if K himself was such a relativist, as I think
>> > he was.
>> > 
>> > > Although he had some good points, he was not a
>> > theosophist, as he did
>> > 
>> > > nothing what HPB was working for.
>> > 
>> > > He did much good as an antidot to the false and fake
>> > claims of Besant and
>> > 
>> > > Leadbeater, but not more.
>> > 
>> > >
>> > 
>> > > One should bear in mind that the true successors of
>> > HPB were able to show
>> > 
>> > > and proof their pupils that they are able to receive
>> > divine powers, while in
>> > 
>> > > the Besant and Leadbeater pseudo theosophical cult
>> > there were (as in
>> > 
>> > > communism and marxism) only rhetoric claims, only
>> > words, never deeds.
>> > 
>> > > Only blind believe. Their alleged chelas were picked
>> > up at night for an
>> > 
>> > > astral flight to the Maha Chohan, the Lord of the
>> > world, the logos at what
>> > 
>> > > else absurde nonsense, but the chelas had no knowledge
>> > about it. Besant and
>> > 
>> > > Leadbeater told it next morning at breakfast.
>> > 
>> > >
>> > 
>> > > And the same psycho terror was managed later on at
>> > Covina by the OSS false
>> > 
>> > > flag operations of Conger and Long, who persecuted the
>> > chelas of the
>> > 
>> > > Purucker, claiming that they, the lay chelas of the
>> > first degrees, are the
>> > 
>> > > true successors.
>> > 
>> > >
>> > 
>> > > I find it most extreme, that such black magic and
>> > Jesuitic machinations
>> > 
>> > > within the Theosophical Movement seem not to bother
>> > you.
>> > 
>> > >
>> > 
>> > > To me the present organizations like Adyar TS, ULT and
>> > Pasadena TS are the
>> > 
>> > > most extreme possible organizations against HPB.
>> > 
>> > >
>> > 
>> > > In that they are the true successor of the Vatican,
>> > which is the most
>> > 
>> > > extreme possible organization against Christ.
>> > 
>> > >
>> > 
>> > > And that is the reason why the present incompetent
>> > leaders of that
>> > 
>> > > organizations will not join internet, they want
>> > continue their augeas
>> > 
>> > > staples, continue prayer and sermonizing ("If you
>> > begin to think, master
>> > 
>> > > will make you ill!") instead of teaching.
>> > 
>> > >
>> > 
>> > > Such persons like Radha Burnier and John Algeo would
>> > be the first persons
>> > 
>> > > on my list, which I would kick ou, if I were President
>> > for a week.
>> > 
>> > > Because they destroy the spirit of HPB and replace it
>> > with cant, relativism
>> > 
>> > > and a good portion of mental confusion, which prevents
>> > spiritual insight.
>> > 
>> > >
>> > 
>> > > If Christians are known by their fruits, by what will
>> > theosophists be
>> > 
>> > > known?
>> > 
>> > >
>> > 
>> > > As my "extreme" statement says nothing more
>> > than the many statements of de
>> > 
>> > > Purucker in the 1920'ies and 1930'ies (compare
>> > his "Messages to
>> > 
>> > > Concentions"), were he said that around 1930 all
>> > theosophical groups have
>> > 
>> > > turned to the dark side, will you regard de
>> > Purucker's statements also as
>> > 
>> > > extreme?
>> > 
>> > >
>> > 
>> > > So what is the definition of extreme?
>> > 
>> > >
>> > 
>> > > Are all who remain tru to the spirit of HPB are
>> > extreme? Or
>> > 
>> > > fundamentalistic?
>> > 
>> > >
>> > 
>> > > I am really puzzled now.
>> > 
>> > >
>> > 
>> > > Frank
>> > 
>> > >
>> > 
>> > > ----- Original Message -----
>> > 
>> > > From: MKR
>> > 
>> > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
>> > <theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com>
>> > 
>> > > Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 9:58 PM
>> > 
>> > > Subject: Re: Theos-World Adyar School of Wisdom -
>> > 2010/11
>> > 
>> > >
>> > 
>> > > I think that this is a little bit going too far. While
>> > we may disagree on
>> > 
>> > > many things, it does no good to anyone in making
>> > extreme statements. There
>> > 
>> > > is much work to be done in today's world and
>> > individual theosophists are
>> > 
>> > > the
>> > 
>> > > ones who can make a lot of contributions. Let us hope
>> > we all succeed in
>> > 
>> > > moving theosophy in the world of today.
>> > 
>> > >
>> > 
>> > > MKR
>> > 
>> > >
>> > 
>> > > On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 1:28 PM, Frank Reitemeyer
>> > 
>> > > <ringding2010@...
>> > <ringding2010%40t-online.de>>wrote:
>> > 
>> > >
>> > 
>> > > I agree. Instead allowing the psychics, the liars, the
>> > perverts to rule
>> > 
>> > > wihtin the Theosophical Movement, the little one must
>> > be protected.
>> > 
>> > > For that a strong leader is needed. A strong leader is
>> > the result of good
>> > 
>> > > karma.
>> > 
>> > >
>> > 
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