Theos-Talk Archives (July 2010 Message tt00022)

Dear Cass

Yes indeed. In similar fashion to "God made man in his own image" rather than in truth, the reverse.

Kind regards
Nigel

--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Cass Silva <silva_cass@...> wrote:
>
> 
> 
> Unfortunately the statement, there is no religion higher than truth is like a 
> red flag to a bull.  Religionists believe that there is no truth higher than 
> religion.  
> 
> >
> >Cass
> >
> >From: nhcareyta <nhcareyta@...>
> >To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> >Sent: Tue, 6 July, 2010 1:57:55 PM
> >Subject: Theos-World Re: What is extreme?
> >
> >Â  
> >Dear Do Thi Thuan
> >
> >Thank you for your posting and for the opportunity to 
> >explain for your benefit why some serious students of 
> >Theosophy take exception to the pronouncements of certain theosophical leaders 
> >and writers.
> >
> >The motto of the Adyar Theosophical Society is Satyam Nasti 
> >Paro Dharma; There is no religion higher than truth.
> >
> >Out of respect for that high principle I offer the following 
> >comments about Bishop CW Leadbeater, last posted in this 
> >forum 18 months ago, for your consideration. 
> >
> >They are unfortunately not pleasant, but nonetheless they 
> >are the truth
> >
> >Bishop Leadbeater clearly lied and was fraudulent in
> >numerous matters of determinable and demonstrable fact.
> >
> >He claimed to be representing Madame Blavatsky's version of
> >Theosophy. On most subjects he did not.
> >>http://www.blavatskyarchives.com/tontitlepage.pdf<
> >
> >He claimed to be in direct contact with Madame Blavatsky's
> >masters.
> >Given the utterly contradictory accounts of cosmogonies
> >and cosmologies, any reasonable assessment would
> >manifestly demonstrate that he was not.
> >>http://blavatskyarchives.com/ton1.pdf<
> >
> >Upon meeting with Dr Besant, a few years after he had joined
> >the Adyar Theosophical Society, he claimed to have been born in
> >the year of her birth, 1847. Clearly he was not.
> >According to numerous British records including birth certificate,
> >Church records and even census forms filled out by himself,
> >he was born in 1854. He obviously lied to fabricate a putative
> >"occult" connection between himself and Dr Besant.
> >
> >Furthermore, he claimed to have seen the Mahatma M in 1851.
> >Demonstrably another consciously concocted lie or fraud,
> >this time to coincide with Madame Blavatsky's actual recorded
> >sighting.
> >
> >He claimed to have attended the prestigious British
> >universities of Oxford and Cambridge. He did not.
> >
> >He claimed his father was the senior executive of a British
> >rail company.
> >He was actually one of its bookkeepers.
> >
> >Psychically, he claimed to have seen a sophisticated civilisation
> >on Mars, complete with many specific details. Clearly he did not.
> >
> >In the "theosophical" church he helped found, with teachings and
> >mindset so utterly opposed to the masters he claimed contact with,
> >he stated women were not fit to perform the sacraments due to
> >their inappropriate vehicles.
> >
> >In "Occult Chemistry" he claimed psychic vision of the inner
> >workings of the atomic world.
> >With the exception of one obscure scientist, his
> >pronouncements have little credibility and are
> >ridiculed as nonsense.
> >>http://www.chem.yale.edu/~chem125/125/history99/8Occult/OccultAtoms.h
> >tml<
> >
> >He claimed psychic vision of the atom and drew its picture,
> >claiming it as his own. It was actually a copy of one imagined by
> >Babbit years earlier. Another fraud.
> >
> >In his book "Lives of Alcyone" he constantly changed his
> >putative "psychic" versions of peoples' past lives as they came in
> >and out of his personal favour.
> >
> >He claimed in his writings to meet with the "Lord of the World."
> >A pathological liar and paedophile meeting with the "Supreme
> >Director" of this globe? Really?
> >
> >And the list goes on and on. Whether we term these indiscretions
> >as untruths, lies or fraud they are indisputable matters of fact,
> >which only the most ardent apologist would deny or avoid.
> >
> >Bishop Leadbeater has been proven far and beyond any
> >reasonable doubt to have lied to and manipulated and deceived
> >his followers on many occasions and in many ways.
> >
> >Moreover, the apologists' arguing that his self-confessed,
> >sexual activities with small boys was actually training them
> >in sex magic is sickening and perverted in itself.
> >One wonders whether these apologists and supporters are
> >themselves paedophiles, defending the indefensible.
> >
> >If the bad Bishop were practicing sex magic with these boys, a
> >heinous practice in itself with powerless young children, this
> >would/should have been performed in a ceremonial and
> >ritualistic environment, complete with prescribed formulae i.e.
> >words, chants, invocations/evocations, ceremonial objects etc
> >in a ceremony that would last for perhaps a few hours.
> >His self-confessed climbing naked into bed with a naked
> >young boy whilst "teaching" him masturbation hardly qualifies
> >as sex magic.
> >It was and is paedophilia, to anyone with any intelligence,
> >decency and integrity.
> >
> >Why anyone would want to trust and even defend anything
> >this man did and wrote is a matter of considerable incredulity,
> >until one understands the pernicious nature of the belief-based,
> >blind, devotional mindset. .
> >
> >Simply because he wrote in lyrical, "explanatory", romantic,
> >authoritarian tones does not validate his pronouncements,
> >unless of course our blind, devotional mindset clamours for
> >the simplicity, certainty and "security" of authority, and the
> >glamour of romance.
> >
> >He was simply a common liar and fraud, and some people
> >were and are entirely enamoured by him and his writings.
> >Enamoured and under a glamour, as was Dr Besant in allowing
> >him re-entry into the Society he so disgraced.
> >
> >Do, these unpleasant facts are why so many serious students have dismissed much 
> >of Bishop Leadbeater's writings as fantasy and why 
> >
> >so many more have resigned from the Adyar Society over the past 100 years. 
> >
> >Are you aware also that the Adyar Publishing centre has 
> >removed many of the more outrageous and outlandish statements 
> >from Bishop Leadbeater's books so as to make them more appealing
> >to a gullible reader. Is this not the ultimate in dishonesty and 
> >deceit?
> >
> >If for political reasons the original Society cannot find 
> >the honesty and integrity to remove Bishop Leadbeater's works 
> >from its publishing houses and bookshops then it will remain impoverished in 
> >truth, and in violation of its motto.
> >
> >Kind regards
> >Nigel
> >
> >--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Thuan Do <dothuan@> wrote:
> >>
> >> I don't like it when someone badmouth the Theosophical society'leaders such as 
> >>Ms Besant, Mr. Leadbeater, and Mr. Krisnamurti who wrote many books that I like 
> >>to read. I feel that the person who badmouthed those people know too little to 
> >>understand and talk about those writers/leaders!
> >> 
> >> Do Thi Thuan
> >> http://anhduong.net
> >> http://hoangvan.net
> >> http://biendongnama.tk/
> >> ____________________"Bo Thi, Bac Ai, Thuong Yeu, Diu Dang" la 4 chia khoa de 
> >>vao cua dao
> >> 
> >> 
> >> --- On Mon, 6/28/10, MKR <mkr777@> wrote:
> >> 
> >> > From: MKR <mkr777@>
> >> > Subject: Re: Theos-World What is extreme?
> >> > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> >> > Date: Monday, June 28, 2010, 8:00 PM
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > � 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > I will leave it to the readers to judge your
> >> > statements in this message and
> >> > 
> >> > others. When comments become too personal, then it turns
> >> > off many in the
> >> > 
> >> > list and in the past many have unsubscribed. We all look
> >> > forward to
> >> > 
> >> > increased subscription and participation and we have to do
> >> > everything we can
> >> > 
> >> > towards this objective.
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > MKR
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 4:58 PM, Frank Reitemeyer
> >> > 
> >> > <ringding2010@>wrote:
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > >
> >> > 
> >> > >
> >> > 
> >> > > mkr, I really do not understand, what you write.
> >> > 
> >> > > To me my statement is the most normal and most natural
> >> > thing, at least in
> >> > 
> >> > > the realm of theosophy.
> >> > 
> >> > > What is "extreme"? And why?
> >> > 
> >> > >
> >> > 
> >> > > On the contrary, I find statements extreme, that saw
> >> > doubt on the little
> >> > 
> >> > > ones, the chelas and the messengers.
> >> > 
> >> > >
> >> > 
> >> > > A group which has delevoped virtues and paramitas, has
> >> > a good, natural and
> >> > 
> >> > > healthy aura, good group karma.
> >> > 
> >> > > This good karma **forces** the masters of wisdom to
> >> > help. I know it.
> >> > 
> >> > >
> >> > 
> >> > > On the other hand, a group, which sticks on the
> >> > psychic, emontional and
> >> > 
> >> > > lower intellectual (bear in mind the many teachers in
> >> > the TM!) level,
> >> > 
> >> > > creates bad karma and no master is allowed to help.
> >> > 
> >> > > To me it is a matter of fact.
> >> > 
> >> > >
> >> > 
> >> > > Also a matter of fact, that in most theosophical
> >> > circles (at least I know
> >> > 
> >> > > of at first hand or from trusted friends) HPB is
> >> > combatted, conscious and
> >> > 
> >> > > unconscious. Sins are praised as tolerance, progress
> >> > and all that neo
> >> > 
> >> > > liberal gay gender brainwashing.
> >> > 
> >> > >
> >> > 
> >> > > Including the poison of absolute relativism of the
> >> > Krishnamurti-ites, no
> >> > 
> >> > > matter, if K himself was such a relativist, as I think
> >> > he was.
> >> > 
> >> > > Although he had some good points, he was not a
> >> > theosophist, as he did
> >> > 
> >> > > nothing what HPB was working for.
> >> > 
> >> > > He did much good as an antidot to the false and fake
> >> > claims of Besant and
> >> > 
> >> > > Leadbeater, but not more.
> >> > 
> >> > >
> >> > 
> >> > > One should bear in mind that the true successors of
> >> > HPB were able to show
> >> > 
> >> > > and proof their pupils that they are able to receive
> >> > divine powers, while in
> >> > 
> >> > > the Besant and Leadbeater pseudo theosophical cult
> >> > there were (as in
> >> > 
> >> > > communism and marxism) only rhetoric claims, only
> >> > words, never deeds.
> >> > 
> >> > > Only blind believe. Their alleged chelas were picked
> >> > up at night for an
> >> > 
> >> > > astral flight to the Maha Chohan, the Lord of the
> >> > world, the logos at what
> >> > 
> >> > > else absurde nonsense, but the chelas had no knowledge
> >> > about it. Besant and
> >> > 
> >> > > Leadbeater told it next morning at breakfast.
> >> > 
> >> > >
> >> > 
> >> > > And the same psycho terror was managed later on at
> >> > Covina by the OSS false
> >> > 
> >> > > flag operations of Conger and Long, who persecuted the
> >> > chelas of the
> >> > 
> >> > > Purucker, claiming that they, the lay chelas of the
> >> > first degrees, are the
> >> > 
> >> > > true successors.
> >> > 
> >> > >
> >> > 
> >> > > I find it most extreme, that such black magic and
> >> > Jesuitic machinations
> >> > 
> >> > > within the Theosophical Movement seem not to bother
> >> > you.
> >> > 
> >> > >
> >> > 
> >> > > To me the present organizations like Adyar TS, ULT and
> >> > Pasadena TS are the
> >> > 
> >> > > most extreme possible organizations against HPB.
> >> > 
> >> > >
> >> > 
> >> > > In that they are the true successor of the Vatican,
> >> > which is the most
> >> > 
> >> > > extreme possible organization against Christ.
> >> > 
> >> > >
> >> > 
> >> > > And that is the reason why the present incompetent
> >> > leaders of that
> >> > 
> >> > > organizations will not join internet, they want
> >> > continue their augeas
> >> > 
> >> > > staples, continue prayer and sermonizing ("If you
> >> > begin to think, master
> >> > 
> >> > > will make you ill!") instead of teaching.
> >> > 
> >> > >
> >> > 
> >> > > Such persons like Radha Burnier and John Algeo would
> >> > be the first persons
> >> > 
> >> > > on my list, which I would kick ou, if I were President
> >> > for a week.
> >> > 
> >> > > Because they destroy the spirit of HPB and replace it
> >> > with cant, relativism
> >> > 
> >> > > and a good portion of mental confusion, which prevents
> >> > spiritual insight.
> >> > 
> >> > >
> >> > 
> >> > > If Christians are known by their fruits, by what will
> >> > theosophists be
> >> > 
> >> > > known?
> >> > 
> >> > >
> >> > 
> >> > > As my "extreme" statement says nothing more
> >> > than the many statements of de
> >> > 
> >> > > Purucker in the 1920'ies and 1930'ies (compare
> >> > his "Messages to
> >> > 
> >> > > Concentions"), were he said that around 1930 all
> >> > theosophical groups have
> >> > 
> >> > > turned to the dark side, will you regard de
> >> > Purucker's statements also as
> >> > 
> >> > > extreme?
> >> > 
> >> > >
> >> > 
> >> > > So what is the definition of extreme?
> >> > 
> >> > >
> >> > 
> >> > > Are all who remain tru to the spirit of HPB are
> >> > extreme? Or
> >> > 
> >> > > fundamentalistic?
> >> > 
> >> > >
> >> > 
> >> > > I am really puzzled now.
> >> > 
> >> > >
> >> > 
> >> > > Frank
> >> > 
> >> > >
> >> > 
> >> > > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > 
> >> > > From: MKR
> >> > 
> >> > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> >> > <theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com>
> >> > 
> >> > > Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 9:58 PM
> >> > 
> >> > > Subject: Re: Theos-World Adyar School of Wisdom -
> >> > 2010/11
> >> > 
> >> > >
> >> > 
> >> > > I think that this is a little bit going too far. While
> >> > we may disagree on
> >> > 
> >> > > many things, it does no good to anyone in making
> >> > extreme statements. There
> >> > 
> >> > > is much work to be done in today's world and
> >> > individual theosophists are
> >> > 
> >> > > the
> >> > 
> >> > > ones who can make a lot of contributions. Let us hope
> >> > we all succeed in
> >> > 
> >> > > moving theosophy in the world of today.
> >> > 
> >> > >
> >> > 
> >> > > MKR
> >> > 
> >> > >
> >> > 
> >> > > On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 1:28 PM, Frank Reitemeyer
> >> > 
> >> > > <ringding2010@
> >> > <ringding2010%40t-online.de>>wrote:
> >> > 
> >> > >
> >> > 
> >> > > I agree. Instead allowing the psychics, the liars, the
> >> > perverts to rule
> >> > 
> >> > > wihtin the Theosophical Movement, the little one must
> >> > be protected.
> >> > 
> >> > > For that a strong leader is needed. A strong leader is
> >> > the result of good
> >> > 
> >> > > karma.
> >> > 
> >> > >
> >> > 
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>       
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