Theos-Talk Archives (December 2009 Message tt00175)

The chronology of the election of the VP was published in Internet
long time ago.

I completely forgot about it.

We can re-read it at:

<http://www.theosophicalsociety.gr/Aikya/Keith_Fisher.html>

It would have saved everyone's time if everyone re-read it.


MKR


The readers can clearly see what took place and there was no hanky
panky going on.





On Fri, Dec 25, 2009 at 11:39 AM, Keith Fisher <exsecy@gmail.com> wrote:
> Preethi
>
>
>
> The Vice President, Linda Oliveira, was elected and
>
> confirmed by a majority vote of the General Council
>
> on 20 October 2008.
>
>
>
> The announcement of the result of the election was
>
> delayed a few days waiting for the President to return
>
> to Adyar and was first communicated to all GC members,
>
> including the previous Vice President, on 29 October 2008.
>
>
>
> The President followed standard procedure in declaring
>
> the result of the Vice President election to the membership
>
> in the December issue of The Theosophist.
>
>
>
> Every important event in the year is reported to the General
>
> Council at its annual meeting on 25 December.
>
>
>
> Under Agenda item 3, Confirmation of voting, the result of
>
> the VP election was reported. The voting slips were made
>
> available for GC members to scrutinize and the votes cast
>
> were confirmed as being correct.
>
>
>
> There is nothing sinister or illegal with any of these
>
> procedures, except in the minds of those who can not
>
> accept the result of the election.
>
>
>
> The rule changes that would remove the right of members
>
> to vote in a Presidential election were contained in a
>
> document entitled âDraft Proposed Amendments to the
>
> Societyâs Rules and Regulationsâ.
>
>
>
> This document was not discussed and rejected as being
>
> non-viable as you have stated, it did not appear on the
>
> Agenda, and no part of the document was discussed.
>
> No reference to this document appears in the minutes of
>
> the GC meeting to which you refer.
>
>
>
> Keith
>
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 25, 2009 at 10:17 AM, preethi muthiah
> <seeker_preethi@yahoo.com>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> By that count, MKR, the President and Vice President of the TS ought to
>> abide by the Pledge of having the benefit of the TS in their hearts and
>> minds above all and everything personal. Would you be kind enough to ask
>> them why they have put their personal selves and egoes before and above
>> everything else in the TS? Why today the purity and cleanliness of our
>> Movement has taken second place to their need to hold on to power and
>> position in the TS?
>>
>> As regards the disenfranchisent issue you are repeatedly talking about MKR,
>> that was just -- I repeat JUST a proposal...no more, no less. A proposal
>> that was brought up in the GC Meeting, discussed and REJECTED as being
>> NON-VIABLE.
>>
>> But the FACT that you keep bringing up the issue whenever something that is
>> NOT pleasant to the current administrative head and her aides comes up shows
>> that the current administrative head and her aides are INCAPABLE of standing
>> in the light of the Truth that today -- as since 24 May 2009 -- asks them to
>> ACCOUNT for their deeds and misdeeds, their demeanours and misdemeanours in
>> running the Theosophical Society. The main point is:
>>
>> WHAT IS SO MUCH CORRUPTION AND FEAR DOING IN THE THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY?
>>
>> I take you to your own words below: "Because, once you write something with
>> your own name, you have to stand by what one writes."
>>
>> By this declaration -- which I agree with you is right and just and fair --
>> you ought to be asking the President and the Vice President "How it is that
>> the printed issue -- as every issue of the Theosophist would tell you that
>> the President is responsible only for Official Notices appearing in the
>> Theosophist -- of December 2008 The Theosophist carried the official
>> declaration of Linda Oliveira as "elected" -- please note the word "elected"
>> -- Vice President of the TS while that election was still due for scrutiny
>> and confirmation during the GC meeting held on 25 December 2008?"
>>
>> Were the President and Vice President truly ABIDING by the rules of the
>> Constitution of the TS, that announcement ought to have waited till the
>> January 2009 issue of the Theosophist. Could you please, at your discretion
>> of course, ask this question of the two principal Officers of the TS? What
>> was the President's hurry in declaring Linda Oliveira as VP? Why could she
>> not have waited the two months from October 2008 to January 2009 for making
>> an official declaration, as would have been constitutionally and legally
>> correct?
>>
>> And the subtler question: when the Two principal Officers of the TS are so
>> corruption and power oriented, how can they (as we all as well) hope that
>> the TS will not be CONTAMINATED by that corruption?
>>
>> This last point, I am sure you will agree, is cause for much more concern
>> than the proposed disenfranchisement of voting rights which proposal was
>> anyway openly discussed and rejected as being non-viable. The reason why the
>> corruption practised and endorsed by the current administrative head of the
>> TS and her aides is SUCH A CAUSE FOR CONCERN is because, my dear MKR, when
>> we as members of the TS sign our membership form and pay an annual renewal
>> of membership fee, we -- to suit the convenience of the corrupt Head and her
>> principal aide -- are forced to NOT stand by our annual declaration that we
>> will do our best for the TS and for the future and furtherance of the
>> Movement and its principal Motto and Objects.
>>
>> As can be guessed, then, I would rather stand up and fight against the
>> President who tries to tell me NOT to abide by the declarations by which I
>> put my signature annually as member of the Theosophical Society.
>>
>> Fraternally
>>
>> Preethi
>>
>>
>> --- On Fri, 25/12/09, MKR <mkr777@gmail.com <mkr777%40gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> From: MKR <mkr777@gmail.com <mkr777%40gmail.com>>
>> Subject: Re: Theos-World Election of the Vice-President & related issues -
>> Contradictions & Question that
>> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com>
>> Date: Friday, 25 December, 2009, 7:08 AM
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I will leave it to the reader to make up their minds about the pseudonym
>>
>> issue. Many times, it is used by people to keep their personal reputation
>>
>> mask clear. Because, once you write something with your own name, you have
>>
>> to standby what one writes.
>>
>> The disenfranchisement issue is very very serious. If the coup had
>>
>> succeeded, we will not be talking here, because there is nothing to talk
>>
>> about and all information would have been shut like a clam shell. What is
>>
>> more important is that members were able to make up their minds about the
>>
>> Quartet who tried the ultra secret attempt. This issue is not going to go
>>
>> away, because it is an extremely serious issue with the future of TS and
>> its
>>
>> members.
>>
>> MKR
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 7:28 PM, preethi muthiah
>>
>> <seeker_preethi@ yahoo.com>wrote:
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > MKR,
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Might I be permitted to say here that the Message is more important than
>>
>> > the Messenger. The issue is not so much "who sent the message" than what
>> the
>>
>> > Contents of the message tell us about the current administration, or
>> shall I
>>
>> > say, Misadministration?
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Why does it not occur to you -- a seeker after the Truth -- that people
>>
>> > must need to use pseudonyms for FEAR of facing the repercussions of their
>>
>> > declarations? And what, O Truth Seeker, is FEAR doing in an organization
>>
>> > that declares TRUTH as its Motto? Doesn't the contradiction and dichotomy
>> of
>>
>> > it hit you, MKR?
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Why is there SO MUCH FEAR in the Theosophical Society? Why is there the
>>
>> > FEAR of the President? Where did that FEAR take root?
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Fraternally
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Preethi
>>
>> >
>>
>> > --- On Fri, 25/12/09, MKR <mkr777@gmail. com <mkr777%40gmail. com>>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >
>>
>> > From: MKR <mkr777@gmail. com <mkr777%40gmail. com>>
>>
>> > Subject: Re: Theos-World Election of the Vice-President & related issues
>> -
>>
>> > Contradictions & Question that
>>
>> > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com <theos-talk% 40yahoogroups. com>
>>
>>
>> > Date: Friday, 25 December, 2009, 6:41 AM
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Thanks for posting.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > It would be interesting to know who is the writer of the message.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Theosophical society members around the world are a small community and
>> as
>>
>> >
>>
>> > such most know each other, especially if they are active.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Also many times, when you look at the depth of knowledge shown by the
>>
>> >
>>
>> > writers using pseudonyms, it is usually someone very close to the
>>
>> >
>>
>> > administration and/or the leaders, past and present.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Persons who stand up with their own names behind messages are highly
>>
>> >
>>
>> > regarded because they stake their reputation in what they say and
>> displays
>>
>> >
>>
>> > the integrity of the person.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > On the other hand, you cannot ignore the identity from the message.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Of late many theosophists are fine tuning the techniques of hiding behind
>>
>> >
>>
>> > pseudonyms and claim that message is important.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > It would be interesting to see any responses.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > MKR
>>
>> >
>>
>> > On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 6:32 PM, seeker_preethi <seeker_preethi@
>> yahoo.com
>>
>> > >wrote:
>>
>> >
>>
>> > >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > Dear All,
>>
>> >
>>
>> > >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > I received the below via email and thought I would pass it on to
>>
>> > TheosTalk
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > as well. Lots of things to ponder about, don't you think?
>>
>> >
>>
>> > >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > Fraternally
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > Preethi
>>
>> >
>>
>> > >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > From: Brotherhood Of Theosophy [mailto:brotherhood oftheoso
>> phy@gmail.com <phy%40gmail.com><brotherhoodoftheos ophy%40gmail. com>
>>
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > ]
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 10:56 AM
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > To: brotherhoodoftheoso phy
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > Subject: Election of the Vice-President & related issues -
>> Contradictions
>>
>> > &
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > Question that deserve answers
>>
>> >
>>
>> > >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > Election of the Vice-President & related issues - Contradictions &
>>
>> > Question
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > that deserve answers
>>
>> >
>>
>> > >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > 1. Preethi in http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/theos- talk/message/
>> 53509
>>
>> >
>>
>> > >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > How was Linda Oliveira elected as Vice President of the TS BEFORE the
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > General Council meeting of December 2008 could be held? In that meeting
>> a
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > vote was taken to ELECT her as Vice President of the TS, while actually
>>
>> > the
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > international President had already made that announcement in the
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > Theosophist of December 2008, which issue of the Theosophist was
>> printed
>>
>> > in
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > the Month of November 2008 -- ONE MONTH before the GENERAL COUNCIL
>>
>> > MEETING.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > 2. Keith Fisher at http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/theos-
>> talk/message/
>>
>> > 53513
>>
>> >
>>
>> > >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > Dear Preethi
>>
>> >
>>
>> > >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > The result of the Vice President election could be printed in the
>>
>> > December
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > issue of the Theosophist because the election was completed in October
>>
>> > 2008.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > The President nominated Linda Oliveira for Vice President on 20
>> September
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > 2008, the closing date for voting was 20 October, and the result was
>>
>> > first
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > declared on 29 October 2008. As International Secretary, I presented to
>>
>> > the
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > General Council meeting on 25 December 2008, a document showing how GC
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > members had voted and the actual voting slips for confirmation of the
>>
>> > votes
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > cast. These were scrutinized by the GC members present and found to be
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > correct.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > Keith
>>
>> >
>>
>> > >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > 3. The actual minutes of the General Council Meeting of 25 December
>> 2008
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > states:
>>
>> >
>>
>> > >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > "The voting slips were scrutinized by some of the members of the
>> General
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > Council and Mrs. Linda Oliveira was declared elected as the
>>
>> > Vice-President
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > of the Society."
>>
>> >
>>
>> > >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > 4. Rule 11
>>
>> >
>>
>> > >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > `Within three months of assuming office the President shall nominate
>> the
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > Vice President subject to confirmation by the General Council.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > 5. By every one's own admission, election was required to be confirmed
>> by
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > the General Council!
>>
>> >
>>
>> > >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > 6. Question that deserves answer
>>
>> >
>>
>> > >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > If a confirmation was required in the 25 December 2008 General Council
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > meeting, and because minutes of this meeting also states that Linda
>>
>> > Oliveira
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > was declared elected only on 25 December 2008 how is it fair and honest
>>
>> > to
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > declare on 29 October 2008 that she is the Vice-President and to make
>> the
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > announcement in the December month's Theosophist which was actually
>>
>> > printed
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > in November 2008? By such action, the General Council has been treated
>>
>> > with
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > contempt and it is an insult to the General Council members.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > 7. The violations of rules in election (?) of additional members of the
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > General Council are also shameful and reflect the manipulations and
>> utter
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > cynical contempt for rules, procedures, for ordinary members and
>> General
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > Council members of The Theosophical Society.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > All functions of Linda as vice-president and of the additional general
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > council members elected (?) in 2008 cannot be treated legal.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > Reply by Govert Schuller 18 hours ago
>>
>> >
>>
>> > >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > Dear Adyarwoman,
>>
>> >
>>
>> > >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > This issue only looks like a non-sinister technicality.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > What was the exact text of the December 2008 Theosophist regarding Mrs.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > Oliveira's status?
>>
>> >
>>
>> > >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > Probably she should have been called "Vice President Elect" from
>> October
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > 29, 2008 till December 25, 2008, when she was declared "Vice President"
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > based on the acceptance of the election results by the GC.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > Reply by adyarwoman 9 hours ago
>>
>> >
>>
>> > >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > It is not 'non-sinister technically. ' It is sinister. The December
>> 2008
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > issue of The Theosophist printed in last week of November 2008, carries
>>
>> > the
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > following 2 information:
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > Page 85: "Mrs. Linda Oliveira was elected Vice-President with effect
>> from
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > 20 October 2008."
>>
>> >
>>
>> > >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > Keith Fisher at http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/theos- talk/message/
>>
>> > 53513
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > says "the result was first declared on 29 October 2008" , (9 days
>> later!)
>>
>> >
>>
>> > >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > The same issue of The Theosophist says on the 2nd Page in the list of
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > Presidents, Vice-Presidents etc, "Vice-President: Mrs. Linda Oliveira".
>>
>> >
>>
>> > >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > This was a sinister attempt to prevent the existing Vice-President from
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > attending the General Council meeting.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > This also makes a mockery of the procedure of confirmation and hence an
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > insult and contempt to the General Council members.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > Reply by Govert Schuller 7 hours ago
>>
>> >
>>
>> > >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > I see. That's why I asked for the text. Thank you.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > For full information, visit
>>
>> >
>>
>> > >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > http://theosophical .ning.com/ forum/topics/ the-ts-in- crisis-new?
>>
>> > id=2060685% 3ATopic%3A40419& page=-1#comments
>>
>> >
>>
>> > >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>> >
>>
>> > The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage.
>>
>> > http://in.yahoo. com/
>>
>> >
>>
>> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>> The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage.
>> http://in.yahoo.com/
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
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