Theos-Talk Archives (December 2009 Message tt00177)

MKR,

Thank you for sending this.

Fraternally

Preethi

--- On Sat, 26/12/09, MKR <mkr777@gmail.com> wrote:

From: MKR <mkr777@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Theos-World Election of the Vice-President & related issues -  Contradictions & Question that
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, 26 December, 2009, 3:26 AM







Â



  


    
      
      
      The chronology of the election of the VP was published in Internet

long time ago.



I completely forgot about it.



We can re-read it at:



<http://www.theosoph icalsociety. gr/Aikya/ Keith_Fisher. html>



It would have saved everyone's time if everyone re-read it.



MKR



The readers can clearly see what took place and there was no hanky

panky going on.



On Fri, Dec 25, 2009 at 11:39 AM, Keith Fisher <exsecy@gmail. com> wrote:

> Preethi

>

>

>

> The Vice President, Linda Oliveira, was elected and

>

> confirmed by a majority vote of the General Council

>

> on 20 October 2008.

>

>

>

> The announcement of the result of the election was

>

> delayed a few days waiting for the President to return

>

> to Adyar and was first communicated to all GC members,

>

> including the previous Vice President, on 29 October 2008.

>

>

>

> The President followed standard procedure in declaring

>

> the result of the Vice President election to the membership

>

> in the December issue of The Theosophist.

>

>

>

> Every important event in the year is reported to the General

>

> Council at its annual meeting on 25 December.

>

>

>

> Under Agenda item 3, Confirmation of voting, the result of

>

> the VP election was reported. The voting slips were made

>

> available for GC members to scrutinize and the votes cast

>

> were confirmed as being correct.

>

>

>

> There is nothing sinister or illegal with any of these

>

> procedures, except in the minds of those who can not

>

> accept the result of the election.

>

>

>

> The rule changes that would remove the right of members

>

> to vote in a Presidential election were contained in a

>

> document entitled âDraft Proposed Amendments to the

>

> Societyâs Rules and Regulationsâ.

>

>

>

> This document was not discussed and rejected as being

>

> non-viable as you have stated, it did not appear on the

>

> Agenda, and no part of the document was discussed.

>

> No reference to this document appears in the minutes of

>

> the GC meeting to which you refer.

>

>

>

> Keith

>

>

>

> On Fri, Dec 25, 2009 at 10:17 AM, preethi muthiah

> <seeker_preethi@ yahoo.com>wrote:

>

>>

>>

>> By that count, MKR, the President and Vice President of the TS ought to

>> abide by the Pledge of having the benefit of the TS in their hearts and

>> minds above all and everything personal. Would you be kind enough to ask

>> them why they have put their personal selves and egoes before and above

>> everything else in the TS? Why today the purity and cleanliness of our

>> Movement has taken second place to their need to hold on to power and

>> position in the TS?

>>

>> As regards the disenfranchisent issue you are repeatedly talking about MKR,

>> that was just -- I repeat JUST a proposal...no more, no less. A proposal

>> that was brought up in the GC Meeting, discussed and REJECTED as being

>> NON-VIABLE.

>>

>> But the FACT that you keep bringing up the issue whenever something that is

>> NOT pleasant to the current administrative head and her aides comes up shows

>> that the current administrative head and her aides are INCAPABLE of standing

>> in the light of the Truth that today -- as since 24 May 2009 -- asks them to

>> ACCOUNT for their deeds and misdeeds, their demeanours and misdemeanours in

>> running the Theosophical Society. The main point is:

>>

>> WHAT IS SO MUCH CORRUPTION AND FEAR DOING IN THE THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY?

>>

>> I take you to your own words below: "Because, once you write something with

>> your own name, you have to stand by what one writes."

>>

>> By this declaration -- which I agree with you is right and just and fair --

>> you ought to be asking the President and the Vice President "How it is that

>> the printed issue -- as every issue of the Theosophist would tell you that

>> the President is responsible only for Official Notices appearing in the

>> Theosophist -- of December 2008 The Theosophist carried the official

>> declaration of Linda Oliveira as "elected" -- please note the word "elected"

>> -- Vice President of the TS while that election was still due for scrutiny

>> and confirmation during the GC meeting held on 25 December 2008?"

>>

>> Were the President and Vice President truly ABIDING by the rules of the

>> Constitution of the TS, that announcement ought to have waited till the

>> January 2009 issue of the Theosophist. Could you please, at your discretion

>> of course, ask this question of the two principal Officers of the TS? What

>> was the President's hurry in declaring Linda Oliveira as VP? Why could she

>> not have waited the two months from October 2008 to January 2009 for making

>> an official declaration, as would have been constitutionally and legally

>> correct?

>>

>> And the subtler question: when the Two principal Officers of the TS are so

>> corruption and power oriented, how can they (as we all as well) hope that

>> the TS will not be CONTAMINATED by that corruption?

>>

>> This last point, I am sure you will agree, is cause for much more concern

>> than the proposed disenfranchisement of voting rights which proposal was

>> anyway openly discussed and rejected as being non-viable. The reason why the

>> corruption practised and endorsed by the current administrative head of the

>> TS and her aides is SUCH A CAUSE FOR CONCERN is because, my dear MKR, when

>> we as members of the TS sign our membership form and pay an annual renewal

>> of membership fee, we -- to suit the convenience of the corrupt Head and her

>> principal aide -- are forced to NOT stand by our annual declaration that we

>> will do our best for the TS and for the future and furtherance of the

>> Movement and its principal Motto and Objects.

>>

>> As can be guessed, then, I would rather stand up and fight against the

>> President who tries to tell me NOT to abide by the declarations by which I

>> put my signature annually as member of the Theosophical Society.

>>

>> Fraternally

>>

>> Preethi

>>

>>

>> --- On Fri, 25/12/09, MKR <mkr777@gmail. com <mkr777%40gmail. com>> wrote:

>>

>> From: MKR <mkr777@gmail. com <mkr777%40gmail. com>>

>> Subject: Re: Theos-World Election of the Vice-President & related issues -

>> Contradictions & Question that

>> To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com <theos-talk% 40yahoogroups. com>

>> Date: Friday, 25 December, 2009, 7:08 AM

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> I will leave it to the reader to make up their minds about the pseudonym

>>

>> issue. Many times, it is used by people to keep their personal reputation

>>

>> mask clear. Because, once you write something with your own name, you have

>>

>> to standby what one writes.

>>

>> The disenfranchisement issue is very very serious. If the coup had

>>

>> succeeded, we will not be talking here, because there is nothing to talk

>>

>> about and all information would have been shut like a clam shell. What is

>>

>> more important is that members were able to make up their minds about the

>>

>> Quartet who tried the ultra secret attempt. This issue is not going to go

>>

>> away, because it is an extremely serious issue with the future of TS and

>> its

>>

>> members.

>>

>> MKR

>>

>> On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 7:28 PM, preethi muthiah

>>

>> <seeker_preethi@ yahoo.com>wrote:

>>

>> >

>>

>> >

>>

>> > MKR,

>>

>> >

>>

>> > Might I be permitted to say here that the Message is more important than

>>

>> > the Messenger. The issue is not so much "who sent the message" than what

>> the

>>

>> > Contents of the message tell us about the current administration, or

>> shall I

>>

>> > say, Misadministration?

>>

>> >

>>

>> > Why does it not occur to you -- a seeker after the Truth -- that people

>>

>> > must need to use pseudonyms for FEAR of facing the repercussions of their

>>

>> > declarations? And what, O Truth Seeker, is FEAR doing in an organization

>>

>> > that declares TRUTH as its Motto? Doesn't the contradiction and dichotomy

>> of

>>

>> > it hit you, MKR?

>>

>> >

>>

>> > Why is there SO MUCH FEAR in the Theosophical Society? Why is there the

>>

>> > FEAR of the President? Where did that FEAR take root?

>>

>> >

>>

>> > Fraternally

>>

>> >

>>

>> > Preethi

>>

>> >

>>

>> > --- On Fri, 25/12/09, MKR <mkr777@gmail. com <mkr777%40gmail. com>>

>> wrote:

>>

>> >

>>

>> > From: MKR <mkr777@gmail. com <mkr777%40gmail. com>>

>>

>> > Subject: Re: Theos-World Election of the Vice-President & related issues

>> -

>>

>> > Contradictions & Question that

>>

>> > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com <theos-talk% 40yahoogroups. com>

>>

>>

>> > Date: Friday, 25 December, 2009, 6:41 AM

>>

>> >

>>

>> >

>>

>> >

>>

>> >

>>

>> > Thanks for posting.

>>

>> >

>>

>> > It would be interesting to know who is the writer of the message.

>>

>> >

>>

>> > Theosophical society members around the world are a small community and

>> as

>>

>> >

>>

>> > such most know each other, especially if they are active.

>>

>> >

>>

>> > Also many times, when you look at the depth of knowledge shown by the

>>

>> >

>>

>> > writers using pseudonyms, it is usually someone very close to the

>>

>> >

>>

>> > administration and/or the leaders, past and present.

>>

>> >

>>

>> > Persons who stand up with their own names behind messages are highly

>>

>> >

>>

>> > regarded because they stake their reputation in what they say and

>> displays

>>

>> >

>>

>> > the integrity of the person.

>>

>> >

>>

>> > On the other hand, you cannot ignore the identity from the message.

>>

>> >

>>

>> > Of late many theosophists are fine tuning the techniques of hiding behind

>>

>> >

>>

>> > pseudonyms and claim that message is important.

>>

>> >

>>

>> > It would be interesting to see any responses.

>>

>> >

>>

>> > MKR

>>

>> >

>>

>> > On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 6:32 PM, seeker_preethi <seeker_preethi@

>> yahoo.com

>>

>> > >wrote:

>>

>> >

>>

>> > >

>>

>> >

>>

>> > >

>>

>> >

>>

>> > > Dear All,

>>

>> >

>>

>> > >

>>

>> >

>>

>> > > I received the below via email and thought I would pass it on to

>>

>> > TheosTalk

>>

>> >

>>

>> > > as well. Lots of things to ponder about, don't you think?

>>

>> >

>>

>> > >

>>

>> >

>>

>> > > Fraternally

>>

>> >

>>

>> > > Preethi

>>

>> >

>>

>> > >

>>

>> >

>>

>> > > From: Brotherhood Of Theosophy [mailto:brotherhood oftheoso

>> phy@gmail.com <phy%40gmail. com><brotherhood oftheos ophy%40gmail. com>

>>

>>

>> >

>>

>> >

>>

>> > > ]

>>

>> >

>>

>> > > Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 10:56 AM

>>

>> >

>>

>> > > To: brotherhoodoftheoso phy

>>

>> >

>>

>> > > Subject: Election of the Vice-President & related issues -

>> Contradictions

>>

>> > &

>>

>> >

>>

>> > > Question that deserve answers

>>

>> >

>>

>> > >

>>

>> >

>>

>> > > Election of the Vice-President & related issues - Contradictions &

>>

>> > Question

>>

>> >

>>

>> > > that deserve answers

>>

>> >

>>

>> > >

>>

>> >

>>

>> > > 1. Preethi in http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/theos- talk/message/

>> 53509

>>

>> >

>>

>> > >

>>

>> >

>>

>> > > How was Linda Oliveira elected as Vice President of the TS BEFORE the

>>

>> >

>>

>> > > General Council meeting of December 2008 could be held? In that meeting

>> a

>>

>> >

>>

>> > > vote was taken to ELECT her as Vice President of the TS, while actually

>>

>> > the

>>

>> >

>>

>> > > international President had already made that announcement in the

>>

>> >

>>

>> > > Theosophist of December 2008, which issue of the Theosophist was

>> printed

>>

>> > in

>>

>> >

>>

>> > > the Month of November 2008 -- ONE MONTH before the GENERAL COUNCIL

>>

>> > MEETING.

>>

>> >

>>

>> > >

>>

>> >

>>

>> > > 2. Keith Fisher at http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/theos-

>> talk/message/

>>

>> > 53513

>>

>> >

>>

>> > >

>>

>> >

>>

>> > > Dear Preethi

>>

>> >

>>

>> > >

>>

>> >

>>

>> > > The result of the Vice President election could be printed in the

>>

>> > December

>>

>> >

>>

>> > > issue of the Theosophist because the election was completed in October

>>

>> > 2008.

>>

>> >

>>

>> > >

>>

>> >

>>

>> > > The President nominated Linda Oliveira for Vice President on 20

>> September

>>

>> >

>>

>> > > 2008, the closing date for voting was 20 October, and the result was

>>

>> > first

>>

>> >

>>

>> > > declared on 29 October 2008. As International Secretary, I presented to

>>

>> > the

>>

>> >

>>

>> > > General Council meeting on 25 December 2008, a document showing how GC

>>

>> >

>>

>> > > members had voted and the actual voting slips for confirmation of the

>>

>> > votes

>>

>> >

>>

>> > > cast. These were scrutinized by the GC members present and found to be

>>

>> >

>>

>> > > correct.

>>

>> >

>>

>> > > Keith

>>

>> >

>>

>> > >

>>

>> >

>>

>> > > 3. The actual minutes of the General Council Meeting of 25 December

>> 2008

>>

>> >

>>

>> > > states:

>>

>> >

>>

>> > >

>>

>> >

>>

>> > > "The voting slips were scrutinized by some of the members of the

>> General

>>

>> >

>>

>> > > Council and Mrs. Linda Oliveira was declared elected as the

>>

>> > Vice-President

>>

>> >

>>

>> > > of the Society."

>>

>> >

>>

>> > >

>>

>> >

>>

>> > > 4. Rule 11

>>

>> >

>>

>> > >

>>

>> >

>>

>> > > `Within three months of assuming office the President shall nominate

>> the

>>

>> >

>>

>> > > Vice President subject to confirmation by the General Council.

>>

>> >

>>

>> > >

>>

>> >

>>

>> > > 5. By every one's own admission, election was required to be confirmed

>> by

>>

>> >

>>

>> > > the General Council!

>>

>> >

>>

>> > >

>>

>> >

>>

>> > > 6. Question that deserves answer

>>

>> >

>>

>> > >

>>

>> >

>>

>> > > If a confirmation was required in the 25 December 2008 General Council

>>

>> >

>>

>> > > meeting, and because minutes of this meeting also states that Linda

>>

>> > Oliveira

>>

>> >

>>

>> > > was declared elected only on 25 December 2008 how is it fair and honest

>>

>> > to

>>

>> >

>>

>> > > declare on 29 October 2008 that she is the Vice-President and to make

>> the

>>

>> >

>>

>> > > announcement in the December month's Theosophist which was actually

>>

>> > printed

>>

>> >

>>

>> > > in November 2008? By such action, the General Council has been treated

>>

>> > with

>>

>> >

>>

>> > > contempt and it is an insult to the General Council members.

>>

>> >

>>

>> > >

>>

>> >

>>

>> > > 7. The violations of rules in election (?) of additional members of the

>>

>> >

>>

>> > > General Council are also shameful and reflect the manipulations and

>> utter

>>

>> >

>>

>> > > cynical contempt for rules, procedures, for ordinary members and

>> General

>>

>> >

>>

>> > > Council members of The Theosophical Society.

>>

>> >

>>

>> > >

>>

>> >

>>

>> > > All functions of Linda as vice-president and of the additional general

>>

>> >

>>

>> > > council members elected (?) in 2008 cannot be treated legal.

>>

>> >

>>

>> > >

>>

>> >

>>

>> > > Reply by Govert Schuller 18 hours ago

>>

>> >

>>

>> > >

>>

>> >

>>

>> > > Dear Adyarwoman,

>>

>> >

>>

>> > >

>>

>> >

>>

>> > > This issue only looks like a non-sinister technicality.

>>

>> >

>>

>> > >

>>

>> >

>>

>> > > What was the exact text of the December 2008 Theosophist regarding Mrs.

>>

>> >

>>

>> > > Oliveira's status?

>>

>> >

>>

>> > >

>>

>> >

>>

>> > > Probably she should have been called "Vice President Elect" from

>> October

>>

>> >

>>

>> > > 29, 2008 till December 25, 2008, when she was declared "Vice President"

>>

>> >

>>

>> > > based on the acceptance of the election results by the GC.

>>

>> >

>>

>> > >

>>

>> >

>>

>> > > Reply by adyarwoman 9 hours ago

>>

>> >

>>

>> > >

>>

>> >

>>

>> > > It is not 'non-sinister technically. ' It is sinister. The December

>> 2008

>>

>> >

>>

>> > > issue of The Theosophist printed in last week of November 2008, carries

>>

>> > the

>>

>> >

>>

>> > > following 2 information:

>>

>> >

>>

>> > > Page 85: "Mrs. Linda Oliveira was elected Vice-President with effect

>> from

>>

>> >

>>

>> > > 20 October 2008."

>>

>> >

>>

>> > >

>>

>> >

>>

>> > > Keith Fisher at http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/theos- talk/message/

>>

>> > 53513

>>

>> >

>>

>> > > says "the result was first declared on 29 October 2008" , (9 days

>> later!)

>>

>> >

>>

>> > >

>>

>> >

>>

>> > > The same issue of The Theosophist says on the 2nd Page in the list of

>>

>> >

>>

>> > > Presidents, Vice-Presidents etc, "Vice-President: Mrs. Linda Oliveira".

>>

>> >

>>

>> > >

>>

>> >

>>

>> > > This was a sinister attempt to prevent the existing Vice-President from

>>

>> >

>>

>> > > attending the General Council meeting.

>>

>> >

>>

>> > >

>>

>> >

>>

>> > > This also makes a mockery of the procedure of confirmation and hence an

>>

>> >

>>

>> > > insult and contempt to the General Council members.

>>

>> >

>>

>> > >

>>

>> >

>>

>> > > Reply by Govert Schuller 7 hours ago

>>

>> >

>>

>> > >

>>

>> >

>>

>> > > I see. That's why I asked for the text. Thank you.

>>

>> >

>>

>> > >

>>

>> >

>>

>> > > For full information, visit

>>

>> >

>>

>> > >

>>

>> >

>>

>> > >

>>

>> >

>>

>> > > http://theosophical .ning.com/ forum/topics/ the-ts-in- crisis-new?

>>

>> > id=2060685% 3ATopic%3A40419& page=-1#comments

>>

>> >

>>

>> > >

>>

>> >

>>

>> > >

>>

>> >

>>

>> > >

>>

>> >

>>

>> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>>

>> >

>>

>> > The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage.

>>

>> > http://in.yahoo. com/

>>

>> >

>>

>> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>>

>> >

>>

>> >

>>

>> >

>>

>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>>

>> The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage.

>> http://in.yahoo. com/

>>

>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>>

>>

>>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>

>

> ------------ --------- --------- ------

>

> Yahoo! Groups Links

>

>

>

>



    
     

    
    


 



  






      The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage. http://in.yahoo.com/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]