Theos-Talk Archives (December 2009 Message tt00173)

Preethi



The Vice President, Linda Oliveira, was elected and

confirmed by a majority vote of the General Council

on 20 October 2008.



The announcement of the result of the election was

delayed a few days waiting for the President to return

to Adyar and was first communicated to all GC members,

including the previous Vice President, on 29 October 2008.



The President followed standard procedure in declaring

the result of the Vice President election to the membership

in the December issue of The Theosophist.



Every important event in the year is reported to the General

Council at its annual meeting on 25 December.



Under Agenda item 3, Confirmation of voting, the result of

the VP election was reported. The voting slips were made

available for GC members to scrutinize and the votes cast

were confirmed as being correct.



There is nothing sinister or illegal with any of these

procedures, except in the minds of those who can not

accept the result of the election.



The rule changes that would remove the right of members

to vote in a Presidential election were contained in a

document entitled ?Draft Proposed Amendments to the

Society?s Rules and Regulations?.



This document was not discussed and rejected as being

non-viable as you have stated, it did not appear on the

Agenda, and no part of the document was discussed.

No reference to this document appears in the minutes of

the GC meeting to which you refer.



Keith



On Fri, Dec 25, 2009 at 10:17 AM, preethi muthiah
<seeker_preethi@yahoo.com>wrote:

>
>
> By that count, MKR, the President and Vice President of the TS ought to
> abide by the Pledge of having the benefit of the TS in their hearts and
> minds above all and everything personal. Would you be kind enough to ask
> them why they have put their personal selves and egoes before and above
> everything else in the TS? Why today the purity and cleanliness of our
> Movement has taken second place to their need to hold on to power and
> position in the TS?
>
> As regards the disenfranchisent issue you are repeatedly talking about MKR,
> that was just -- I repeat JUST a proposal...no more, no less. A proposal
> that was brought up in the GC Meeting, discussed and REJECTED as being
> NON-VIABLE.
>
> But the FACT that you keep bringing up the issue whenever something that is
> NOT pleasant to the current administrative head and her aides comes up shows
> that the current administrative head and her aides are INCAPABLE of standing
> in the light of the Truth that today -- as since 24 May 2009 -- asks them to
> ACCOUNT for their deeds and misdeeds, their demeanours and misdemeanours in
> running the Theosophical Society. The main point is:
>
> WHAT IS SO MUCH CORRUPTION AND FEAR DOING IN THE THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY?
>
> I take you to your own words below: "Because, once you write something with
> your own name, you have to stand by what one writes."
>
> By this declaration -- which I agree with you is right and just and fair --
> you ought to be asking the President and the Vice President "How it is that
> the printed issue -- as every issue of the Theosophist would tell you that
> the President is responsible only for Official Notices appearing in the
> Theosophist -- of December 2008 The Theosophist carried the official
> declaration of Linda Oliveira as "elected" -- please note the word "elected"
> -- Vice President of the TS while that election was still due for scrutiny
> and confirmation during the GC meeting held on 25 December 2008?"
>
> Were the President and Vice President truly ABIDING by the rules of the
> Constitution of the TS, that announcement ought to have waited till the
> January 2009 issue of the Theosophist. Could you please, at your discretion
> of course, ask this question of the two principal Officers of the TS? What
> was the President's hurry in declaring Linda Oliveira as VP? Why could she
> not have waited the two months from October 2008 to January 2009 for making
> an official declaration, as would have been constitutionally and legally
> correct?
>
> And the subtler question: when the Two principal Officers of the TS are so
> corruption and power oriented, how can they (as we all as well) hope that
> the TS will not be CONTAMINATED by that corruption?
>
> This last point, I am sure you will agree, is cause for much more concern
> than the proposed disenfranchisement of voting rights which proposal was
> anyway openly discussed and rejected as being non-viable. The reason why the
> corruption practised and endorsed by the current administrative head of the
> TS and her aides is SUCH A CAUSE FOR CONCERN is because, my dear MKR, when
> we as members of the TS sign our membership form and pay an annual renewal
> of membership fee, we -- to suit the convenience of the corrupt Head and her
> principal aide -- are forced to NOT stand by our annual declaration that we
> will do our best for the TS and for the future and furtherance of the
> Movement and its principal Motto and Objects.
>
> As can be guessed, then, I would rather stand up and fight against the
> President who tries to tell me NOT to abide by the declarations by which I
> put my signature annually as member of the Theosophical Society.
>
> Fraternally
>
> Preethi
>
>
> --- On Fri, 25/12/09, MKR <mkr777@gmail.com <mkr777%40gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> From: MKR <mkr777@gmail.com <mkr777%40gmail.com>>
> Subject: Re: Theos-World Election of the Vice-President & related issues -
> Contradictions & Question that
> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Friday, 25 December, 2009, 7:08 AM
>
>
>
>
> I will leave it to the reader to make up their minds about the pseudonym
>
> issue. Many times, it is used by people to keep their personal reputation
>
> mask clear. Because, once you write something with your own name, you have
>
> to standby what one writes.
>
> The disenfranchisement issue is very very serious. If the coup had
>
> succeeded, we will not be talking here, because there is nothing to talk
>
> about and all information would have been shut like a clam shell. What is
>
> more important is that members were able to make up their minds about the
>
> Quartet who tried the ultra secret attempt. This issue is not going to go
>
> away, because it is an extremely serious issue with the future of TS and
> its
>
> members.
>
> MKR
>
> On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 7:28 PM, preethi muthiah
>
> <seeker_preethi@ yahoo.com>wrote:
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > MKR,
>
> >
>
> > Might I be permitted to say here that the Message is more important than
>
> > the Messenger. The issue is not so much "who sent the message" than what
> the
>
> > Contents of the message tell us about the current administration, or
> shall I
>
> > say, Misadministration?
>
> >
>
> > Why does it not occur to you -- a seeker after the Truth -- that people
>
> > must need to use pseudonyms for FEAR of facing the repercussions of their
>
> > declarations? And what, O Truth Seeker, is FEAR doing in an organization
>
> > that declares TRUTH as its Motto? Doesn't the contradiction and dichotomy
> of
>
> > it hit you, MKR?
>
> >
>
> > Why is there SO MUCH FEAR in the Theosophical Society? Why is there the
>
> > FEAR of the President? Where did that FEAR take root?
>
> >
>
> > Fraternally
>
> >
>
> > Preethi
>
> >
>
> > --- On Fri, 25/12/09, MKR <mkr777@gmail. com <mkr777%40gmail. com>>
> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > From: MKR <mkr777@gmail. com <mkr777%40gmail. com>>
>
> > Subject: Re: Theos-World Election of the Vice-President & related issues
> -
>
> > Contradictions & Question that
>
> > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com <theos-talk% 40yahoogroups. com>
>
>
> > Date: Friday, 25 December, 2009, 6:41 AM
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Thanks for posting.
>
> >
>
> > It would be interesting to know who is the writer of the message.
>
> >
>
> > Theosophical society members around the world are a small community and
> as
>
> >
>
> > such most know each other, especially if they are active.
>
> >
>
> > Also many times, when you look at the depth of knowledge shown by the
>
> >
>
> > writers using pseudonyms, it is usually someone very close to the
>
> >
>
> > administration and/or the leaders, past and present.
>
> >
>
> > Persons who stand up with their own names behind messages are highly
>
> >
>
> > regarded because they stake their reputation in what they say and
> displays
>
> >
>
> > the integrity of the person.
>
> >
>
> > On the other hand, you cannot ignore the identity from the message.
>
> >
>
> > Of late many theosophists are fine tuning the techniques of hiding behind
>
> >
>
> > pseudonyms and claim that message is important.
>
> >
>
> > It would be interesting to see any responses.
>
> >
>
> > MKR
>
> >
>
> > On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 6:32 PM, seeker_preethi <seeker_preethi@
> yahoo.com
>
> > >wrote:
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Dear All,
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > I received the below via email and thought I would pass it on to
>
> > TheosTalk
>
> >
>
> > > as well. Lots of things to ponder about, don't you think?
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Fraternally
>
> >
>
> > > Preethi
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > From: Brotherhood Of Theosophy [mailto:brotherhood oftheoso
> phy@gmail.com <phy%40gmail.com><brotherhoodoftheos ophy%40gmail. com>
>
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > > ]
>
> >
>
> > > Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 10:56 AM
>
> >
>
> > > To: brotherhoodoftheoso phy
>
> >
>
> > > Subject: Election of the Vice-President & related issues -
> Contradictions
>
> > &
>
> >
>
> > > Question that deserve answers
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Election of the Vice-President & related issues - Contradictions &
>
> > Question
>
> >
>
> > > that deserve answers
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > 1. Preethi in http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/theos- talk/message/
> 53509
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > How was Linda Oliveira elected as Vice President of the TS BEFORE the
>
> >
>
> > > General Council meeting of December 2008 could be held? In that meeting
> a
>
> >
>
> > > vote was taken to ELECT her as Vice President of the TS, while actually
>
> > the
>
> >
>
> > > international President had already made that announcement in the
>
> >
>
> > > Theosophist of December 2008, which issue of the Theosophist was
> printed
>
> > in
>
> >
>
> > > the Month of November 2008 -- ONE MONTH before the GENERAL COUNCIL
>
> > MEETING.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > 2. Keith Fisher at http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/theos-
> talk/message/
>
> > 53513
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Dear Preethi
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > The result of the Vice President election could be printed in the
>
> > December
>
> >
>
> > > issue of the Theosophist because the election was completed in October
>
> > 2008.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > The President nominated Linda Oliveira for Vice President on 20
> September
>
> >
>
> > > 2008, the closing date for voting was 20 October, and the result was
>
> > first
>
> >
>
> > > declared on 29 October 2008. As International Secretary, I presented to
>
> > the
>
> >
>
> > > General Council meeting on 25 December 2008, a document showing how GC
>
> >
>
> > > members had voted and the actual voting slips for confirmation of the
>
> > votes
>
> >
>
> > > cast. These were scrutinized by the GC members present and found to be
>
> >
>
> > > correct.
>
> >
>
> > > Keith
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > 3. The actual minutes of the General Council Meeting of 25 December
> 2008
>
> >
>
> > > states:
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > "The voting slips were scrutinized by some of the members of the
> General
>
> >
>
> > > Council and Mrs. Linda Oliveira was declared elected as the
>
> > Vice-President
>
> >
>
> > > of the Society."
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > 4. Rule 11
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > `Within three months of assuming office the President shall nominate
> the
>
> >
>
> > > Vice President subject to confirmation by the General Council.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > 5. By every one's own admission, election was required to be confirmed
> by
>
> >
>
> > > the General Council!
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > 6. Question that deserves answer
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > If a confirmation was required in the 25 December 2008 General Council
>
> >
>
> > > meeting, and because minutes of this meeting also states that Linda
>
> > Oliveira
>
> >
>
> > > was declared elected only on 25 December 2008 how is it fair and honest
>
> > to
>
> >
>
> > > declare on 29 October 2008 that she is the Vice-President and to make
> the
>
> >
>
> > > announcement in the December month's Theosophist which was actually
>
> > printed
>
> >
>
> > > in November 2008? By such action, the General Council has been treated
>
> > with
>
> >
>
> > > contempt and it is an insult to the General Council members.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > 7. The violations of rules in election (?) of additional members of the
>
> >
>
> > > General Council are also shameful and reflect the manipulations and
> utter
>
> >
>
> > > cynical contempt for rules, procedures, for ordinary members and
> General
>
> >
>
> > > Council members of The Theosophical Society.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > All functions of Linda as vice-president and of the additional general
>
> >
>
> > > council members elected (?) in 2008 cannot be treated legal.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Reply by Govert Schuller 18 hours ago
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Dear Adyarwoman,
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > This issue only looks like a non-sinister technicality.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > What was the exact text of the December 2008 Theosophist regarding Mrs.
>
> >
>
> > > Oliveira's status?
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Probably she should have been called "Vice President Elect" from
> October
>
> >
>
> > > 29, 2008 till December 25, 2008, when she was declared "Vice President"
>
> >
>
> > > based on the acceptance of the election results by the GC.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Reply by adyarwoman 9 hours ago
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > It is not 'non-sinister technically. ' It is sinister. The December
> 2008
>
> >
>
> > > issue of The Theosophist printed in last week of November 2008, carries
>
> > the
>
> >
>
> > > following 2 information:
>
> >
>
> > > Page 85: "Mrs. Linda Oliveira was elected Vice-President with effect
> from
>
> >
>
> > > 20 October 2008."
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Keith Fisher at http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/theos- talk/message/
>
> > 53513
>
> >
>
> > > says "the result was first declared on 29 October 2008" , (9 days
> later!)
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > The same issue of The Theosophist says on the 2nd Page in the list of
>
> >
>
> > > Presidents, Vice-Presidents etc, "Vice-President: Mrs. Linda Oliveira".
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > This was a sinister attempt to prevent the existing Vice-President from
>
> >
>
> > > attending the General Council meeting.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > This also makes a mockery of the procedure of confirmation and hence an
>
> >
>
> > > insult and contempt to the General Council members.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Reply by Govert Schuller 7 hours ago
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > I see. That's why I asked for the text. Thank you.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > For full information, visit
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > http://theosophical .ning.com/ forum/topics/ the-ts-in- crisis-new?
>
> > id=2060685% 3ATopic%3A40419& page=-1#comments
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> >
>
> > The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage.
>
> > http://in.yahoo. com/
>
> >
>
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage.
> http://in.yahoo.com/
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]