Theos-Talk Archives (December 2009 Message tt00129)

Chuck, 
Thanks for the recap on Mussilini ,Italy, the rescue of the Jews and a slight referance to the Pope power. Well, I see the current Pope wants to elevate the Pope Eugenio Pacelli, the war time Pope toward sainthood. Could it be because he personaly delivered suitcases of money from the vatican to Hitler before he was made Chancelor? That documentary sound like it would be interesting to view, I wil lgoogle for it, thx. 
John 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Drpsionic@aol.com 
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 4:35:48 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific 
Subject: Re: Theos-World The Theosophical Society and its Political involvements 






Well, not exactly. After all, he was thrown out of office and shot. 

One thing we must remember to the better angels of even a Mussolini. He 
ordered the Italian army to round up all the Jews they could find and hide 
them from the Nazis. Much of what the Catholic Church likes to claim they 
did on behalf of the Jews in Italy was actually forced on them at gunpoint by 
the Italian army, including one incident when an Italian officer literally 
put his pistol into the face of a Mother Superior and told her that a 
group of Jews was going to be hidden in her convent and she could let them in 
or they could walk in over her corpse. There was a documentary done about 
that in the 1990s called "The Righteous Enemy." 

Chuck the Heretic 

_www.charlescosimano.com 

In a message dated 12/22/2009 5:59:51 P.M. Central Standard Time, 
Augoeides-222@comcast.net writes: 

Chuck, 
Musselini got all his power because he always thoroughly oiled hi bald 
dome which made it sprakle intensely in the sun light! He was well trained in 
the use of his sparkling blinding bald dome. He developed the technique of 
moving his head in synch to the sparkles causing the people to be 
auto-hypnotized immediately and put permanently under his auto-suggestive Socialist 
Nationalist rants! From then on they were his thralls having no hope of 
redemption, like the shattered pot-shards they weredoomed to be the servants 
of his Socialist Nationalist Dugpaship Lol!!! 

John ( the error in his name was intentional lol) 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: 

_ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) _Drpsionic@aol.Drp _ 
(mailto: Drpsionic@aol.com ) _ 
To: _ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) _theos-talk@yahoogrotheos-t_ 
(mailto: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com ) 
Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 8:23:51 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific 
Subject: Re: Theos-World The Theosophical Society and its Political 
involvements 

Actually it is in print somewhere from the 1980s. Of course the writer not 
use my exact words and as I'm no longer in easy driving distance of 
the Olcott Library I doubt I can find the specific reference, but yes, it 
is 
a stated policy to stay out of politics, at least as far as the US section 
has always been concerned. 

You have to remember, that during the Besant period, up into Arundale, the 
TS was very much a political organization and, well, it is embarrassing to 
say this but it is the truth, openly pro-Fascist. Mussolini was much 
praised. In 1925 there was a massive, two part, article published in the 
Theosopnotizedhist praising his Italy. Now there is much in Italy to 
praise, but 
Mussolini was not among it. This was really very surprising to me when I 
encountered the article but when I accidentally opened a volume of the 
_Herald of 
the Star from 1922 to an article BY Mussolini, it became less surprising. 

The final blow was by Arundale, who in 1936 wrote that the three greatest 
leaders in the world were Hitler, Mussolini and Franklin Roosevelt! What 
Franklin thought of that was not recorded. 

Chuck the Heretic 

_www.charlescosiman_www.c 

In a message dated 12/22/2009 3:05:34 A.M. Central Standard Time, 
_ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) _global-theosophy@global-thgl_ 
(mailto: global-theosophy@stofanet.dk ) _ writes: 

Thank you for your answer. 
But, that did not really answer all of my questions. 
Has there been any official words in print etc. about this from the TS 
leaders? 

Well I ask, unless you as a Heretic will claim to be an representative. 
:-) 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: 

_ ( _ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) _ http://www.charleschttp://www.c_ 
( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) _ ) _ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) 
__Drpsionic@aol._Dr_ (mailto: _Drpsionic@aol.Drp ) _ _ 
(mailto: _ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) _Drpsionic@aol.Drp _ 
(mailto: Drpsionic@aol.com ) _ ) _ 
To: _ ( _ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) 
_ http://www.charleschttp://www.c_ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) _ ) _theos-talk@ ) _theos- ) 
(mailto: _ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) _theos-talk@yahoogrotheos-t_ 
(mailto: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com ) _ ) _ 
Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 1:23 AM 
Subject: Re: Theos-World The Theosophical Society and its Political 
involvements 

yes, the Theosophical Society was seriously entangled in politics during 
the Besant/Leadbeater madness and that is why it is avoided like the 
plague 
now. 

Chuck the Heretic 

www.charlescosimanowww.ch 

In a message dated 12/21/2009 1:40:44 P.M. Central Standard Time, 
_ ( _ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) _ http://www.charleschttp://www.c_ 
( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) _ ) _global-theosophy@ ) _global-theoso 
(mailto: _ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) _global-theosophy@global-thgl_ 
(mailto: global-theosophy@stofanet.dk ) ) writes: 

Dear friends 

My views are: 

I have learned that is one does not ask any questions...I have learned 
that is one does not 

So now I will ask this our forum with all its members, among which at 
least some can be called Seekers After Truth and Wisdom, aiming for an 
Universal Brotherhood and Sisterhood. 

1. 
I will ask about where is the stance on politics today in the Theosophical 
Society, and to what extend are members and the President of the 
Theosophical Society allowed to involve himself or herself with political 
activities 
and political dispuites? 

2. 
Second. 

...Was The Theosophical Society entangled with politics when Annie Besant 
was leader of the Theosophical Society, leader of The Esoteric Section, 
and 
President of The Indian National Congress in 1917? 

I will say, that the following speech perhaos would be a good idea to keep 
in mind, before answering this question. I give a minor excerpt of it in 
the below. 

The Preidential Address Delivered By 
ANNIE BESANT 
At The Thirty Second Indian 
National Congress 
Held At Calcutta 
26th December 1917 
"The Great War, into the whirlpool of which Nation after Nation has been 
drawn, has entered on its fourth year. The rigid censorship which has been 

established makes it impossible for any outside the circle of Governments 
to 
forecast its duration, but to me, speaking for a moment not as a 
politician but as a student of spiritual laws, to me its end is sure. For 
the true 
object of this War is to prove the evil of, and to destroy, autocracy and 
the enslavement of one Nation by another, and to place on sure foundations 
the God-given Right to Self-Rule and Self-Development of every Nation, and 
the similar right of the Individual, of the smaller Self, so far as is 
consistent with the welfare of the larger Self of the Nation. The forces 
which 
make for the prolongation of autocracy-the rule of one-and the even 
deadlier 
bureaucracy-bureaucracy-<WBR>"The Great War, into the whirlpool of which 
Nat 
has been drawn, has entered on its fourth year. The rigid censorship which 
has been established makes it impossible for any outside the circle of 
Governments to forecast its duration, but to me, speaking for a moment not 
as 
a politician but as a student of spiritual laws, to me its end is sure. 
For 
the true object of this War is to prove the evil of, and to destroy, 
autocracy and the enslavement of one Nation by another, and to place on 
sure 
foundations the God-given Right to Self-Rule and Self-Development of every 
Nation, and the similar right of the I 
Autocracy and bureaucracy must perish utterly, in East and West, and, in 
order that their germs may not re-sprout in the future, they must be 
discredited in the minds of men. They must be proved to be less efficient 
than the 
Governments of Free Peoples, even in their favourite work of War, and 
their iron machinery-which at first brings outer prosperity and 
success-must be 
shown to be less lasting and effective than the living and flexible 
organisations of democratic Peoples. They must be proved failures before 
the 
world, so that the glamour of superficial successes may be destroyed for 
ever. 
They have had their day and their place in evolution, and have done their 
educative work. Now they are out-of-date, unfit for survival, and must 
vanish 
away." 
....... 
"Since 1885, the Congress has constantly protested against the 
ever-increasing military expenditure, but the voice of the Congress was 
supposed to be 
the voice of sedition and of class ambition, instead of being, as it was 
the voice of educated Indians, the most truly patriotic and loyal class of 
the population." 
....... 
"LOSS OF BELIEF IN THE SUPERIORITY OF WHITE RACES 

The undermining of this belief dates from the spreading of the Arya Samaj 
and the Theosophical Society. Both bodies sought to lead the Indian people 
to a sense of the value of their own civilisation, to pride in their past, 
creating self-respect in the present, and self-confidence in the future. 
They destroyed the unhealthy inclination to imitate the West in all 
things, 
and taught discrimination, the using only of what was valuable in western 
thought and culture, instead of a mere slavish copying of everything. 
Another 
great force was that of Swami Vivekananda, alike in his passionate love 
and admiration for India, and his exposure of the evils resulting from 
Materialism in the West. " 
....... 
"In the adapted words of a Christian Scripture, it passionately cries: 
"What shall it profit a Nation if it gain the whole world and lose its own 
Soul? What shall a Nation give in exchange for its Soul?" " 
....... 
"This may seem strong language, because the plain truth is not usually put 
in India. But this is what every Briton feels in Britain for his own 
country, and what every Indian should feel in India for his. This is the 
Freedom 
for which the Allies are fighting; this is Democracy, the Spirit of the 
Age. " 
....... 
"And from_ that union shall aris_e the mightiest Empire, or rather 
Commonwealth, th_at the world has ever known, a Commonwealth that, in 
God's good 
time, shall put an end to War." 

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3. 
Third. 
Is it fair to say that The Theosophical Society today year 2009 still is 
entangled with politics because it still highlights Annie Besant as a 
great 
spiritual leader? 

Seeking the Truth 

M. Sufilight 

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