Theos-Talk Archives (July 2009 Message tt00251)

Well they are not very bright if that is the case.   Although Carl Sagan proves your point - he came up with a lot of drivel but people liked him so accepted his marijuanic visions and ideas.

Cass


>
>From: "Drpsionic@aol.com" <Drpsionic@aol.com>
>To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
>Sent: Monday, 13 July, 2009 3:08:11 PM
>Subject: Re: Theos-World Barking up the wrong tree, as usual
>
>
>
>
>
>Well, nobility is not something I am usually accused of. But it really is 
>simple practicality. What matters is the idea. When you let your ego get 
>in the way and insist that you get the credit for it, people are reacting 
>to you, not to the idea. If they like you, they will like the idea, not 
>matter what the merits. If they dislike you, they will reject the idea, no 
>matter what its merits.
>
>Chuck the heretic
>
>
>In a message dated 7/12/2009 11:09:41 P.M. Central Daylight Time, 
>silva_cass@yahoo. com writes:
>
>That's a very noble attitude coming from a heretic! I'm well impressed.
>
>Cass
>
>>
>>From: "_Drpsionic@aol. Drp_ (mailto:Drpsionic@aol. com) " 
><_Drpsionic@aol. Drp_ (mailto:Drpsionic@aol. com) >
>>To: _theos-talk@ yahoogrotheos- t_ (mailto:theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com) 
>>Sent: Sunday, 12 July, 2009 2:41:40 PM
>>Subject: Re: Theos-World Barking up the wrong tree, as usual
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>It really does not matter who claims to be the source. What matters is 
>>that the idea is out there.
>>
>>Chuck the Heretic
>>
>>
>>In a message dated 7/11/2009 9:21:39 P.M. Central Daylight Time, 
>>silva_cass@ silva_cass@ <WBR>yahoo.
>>
>>Until some other jerk steals our idea as his own!
>>
>>Cass
>>
>>>
>>>From: "_Drpsionic@ From: "_Drpsionic@ <WBR>aFrom: "_Drps
>><_Drpsionic@ _Drpsionic@ <WBR>aol. Drp_ (m_Drpsionic@ <WB>
>>>To: _theos-talk@ yahoogrotheos- t_ (mailto:theos- To: _theos-talk@ yahoog
>>>Sent: Sunday, 12 July, 2009 2:06:14 AM
>>>Subject: Re: Theos-World Barking up the wrong tree, as usual
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>People heal lepers (Hanson's Disease) with antibiotics.
>>>
>>>Physical presence gets in the way of the teacher. It is much more 
>>>efficient to simply put the ideas out into the mahatmasphere and let 
>>people pick 
>>>up on them. And people are far more willing to accept an idea that they 
>>>think is their own rather than someone else's.
>>>
>>>Chuck the Heretic
>>>
>>>
>>>In a message dated 7/11/2009 5:47:41 A.M. Central Daylight Time, 
>>>Mvandertak@ Mvandertak@ <WBR>yahoo.
>>>
>>>So people are healing the lepers in their heads then? Whats wrong with 
>>>being physically present?
>>>
>>>--- On Sat, 7/11/09, Morten Nymann Olesen <_global-theosophy@ 
>>global-thgl_ 
>>>(mailto:global- (mailto:global- <WBR>theos> wrote:
>>>
>>>From: Morten Nymann Olesen <_global-theosophy@ global-thgl_ 
>>>(mailto:global- (mailto:global- <WBR>theosophy>
>>>Subject: Re: Theos-World Barking up the wrong tree, as usual
>>>To: _theos-talk@ yahoogrotheos- t_ (mailto:theos- To: _theos-talk@ yahoog
>>>Date: Saturday, July 11, 2009, 12:04 PM
>>>
>>>Chuck said:
>>>"I'm saying we need to get away from the notion of teachers as 
>>>identifiable 
>>>agents altogether."
>>>
>>>Yes, when they are used as a publicity-stunt.
>>>Idries Shah has told clearly about it:
>>>___http://www.katinkah _ (http://www.katinkah /) _ (_http://www.katinkah _ 
>(http://www.katinkah /) /) __http://wwhttp: _ (http://wwhttp: /) _ 
>>(_http://wwhttp: _ (http://wwhttp: /) /) //wwhttp: //wwwhttp_ 
>>>(__http://www.katinkah _ (http://www.katinkah /) _ (_http://www.katinkah _ 
>(http://www.katinkah /) /) esselink. net/sufi/ 
>>sufi-shah. html) 
>>>
>>>The truth Guru's which are not physically known can be and are 
>important. 
>>>Most New Age Guru's and even present day theosophical lecturers are only 
>>>average human beings, maybe bookworms or cunning orators and nothing 
>else.
>>>A tree is known on its fruits, and not on how cunning it is in cheating 
>>>people to believe that throwing money away is a good idea or that 
>>emotional 
>>>excitement is the spiritual highest.
>>>
>>>- - - - - - -
>>>
>>>Idries Shah said:
>>>"I believe that the guru needs his disciples. If he had a sufficient 
>>>outlet for his desire to be a big shot or his feeling of holiness or his 
>>wish to 
>>>have others dependent on him, he wouldn't be a guru. 
>>>
>>>I got all that out of my system very early and, consistent with Sufi 
>>>[theosophical] tradition, I believe that those who don't want to teach 
>>are the 
>>>ones who can and should. The West still has a vocation hang-up and has 
>>not 
>>>yet discovered this. Here, the only recognized achiever is an obsessive. 
>>In 
>>>the East we believe that a person who can't help doing a thing isn't 
>>>necessarily the best one to do it. A compulsive cookie baker may bake 
>>very bad 
>>>cookies. "
>>>......
>>>"Their followers need the guru as much as the guru needs his followers. 
>I 
>>>just don't regard it as a religious operation. I take a guru to be a 
>sort 
>>>of psychotherapist. At the very best, he keeps people quiet and 
>polarized 
>>>around him and gives some sort of meaning to their lives."
>>>......
>>>"Why shouldn't there be room for what we might call "neighborhood 
>>>psychotherapy" - the community looking after its own? However, why it 
>>should be 
>>>called a spiritual activity rather baffles me."
>>>.......
>>>"Some are frankly phonies, and they don't try to hide it from me. They 
>>>think that I am one, too, so when we meet they begin the most disturbing 
>>>conversations. They want to know how I get money, how I control people, 
>>and so 
>>>on."
>>>......
>>>"They actually feel there is something wrong with what they are doing, 
>>and 
>>>they feel better if they talk to somebody else who is doing it. I always 
>
>>>tell them that I think it would be much better if they gave up the guru 
>>role 
>>>in their own minds and realize that they are providing a perfectly good 
>>>social service."
>>>
>>>- - -
>>>The question is if the above words are what the beginners at TS Adyar or 
>>>other theosophical groups are greeted with???
>>>
>>>M. Sufilight
>>>
>>>----- Original Message ----- 
>>>From: _Drpsionic@aol. Drp_ (mailto:Drpsionic@ From: _Drpsion
>>>To: _theos-talk@ yahoogrotheos- t_ (mailto:theos- To: _theos-talk@ yahoog
>>>Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 8:40 AM
>>>Subject: Re: Theos-World Barking up the wrong tree, as usual
>>>
>>>Hmmm, let's see. Ghandi never faced a real opponent, Stalin would have 
>>>had him for lunch and Mother Theresa was a ghoul who fed off the 
>energies 
>>>of 
>>>the dying. I don't know what they were teaching but it ain't anything I 
>>>would want to learn.
>>>
>>>I'm saying we need to get away from the notion of teachers as 
>>identifiable 
>>>agents altogether.
>>>
>>>Chuck the Heretic
>>>
>>>In a message dated 7/10/2009 10:22:19 P.M. Central Daylight Time, 
>>>_silva_cass@ yahoo.sil_ (mailto:silva_ _silva_cass@ yahoo.sil_ (mai
>>>
>>>So you are saying that World Teachers are known by their actions rather 
>>>than their words? If this is the case one could argue that Gandhi and 
>>>Mother 
>>>Theresa were world teachers.
>>>
>>>I suppose one can walk with world teachers or one can walk behind them. 
>>>A spiritual evolved soul is probably on the way to being his/her own 
>>world 
>>>teacher.
>>>
>>>Cass
>>>
>>>>
>>>>From: "__Drpsionic@ aol._Dr_ (mailto:_Drpsionic@ From: "__Drp
>>>(mailto:_Drpsioni (mailto:_ Drpsioni< WBR< WBR>@aol. (mailto:_Drpsionic
>>><__Drpsionic@ aol._Dr_ (mailto:_Drpsionic@ __Drpsionic@ aol
>>>(mailto:_Drpsioni (mailto:_ Drpsioni< WBR< WBR>@aol. (mailto:_Drpsion>
>>>>To: _theos-talk@ To: _theos-talTo: _theos-_theos- talk@yahoogrothe 
>os-t_ 
>>>(mailto:theos- (mailto:theos- <WBR>talk@ yahoo
>>>>Sent: Friday, 10 July, 2009 2:48:56 PM
>>>>Subject: Theos-World Barking up the wrong tree, as usual
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Ok. The World Teacher thing is fun but the truth is that Theosophist 
>>have 
>>>>been flying the wrong carpet on it since the idea floated out of Annie 
>>>and 
>>>>the Bishop's hats. 
>>>>
>>>>First, there really has never been an identifiable person who could be 
>>>>considered a "World Teacher" who had any serious impact in his 
>lifetime. 
>>>The 
>>>>Buddha was just another local nutcase and Jesus got himself killed. So 
>>>>this business about finding out who the next "World Teacher" was going 
>>to 
>>>be 
>>>>makes about as much sense as trying to find out who will be the next 
>>>Michael 
>>>>Jackson (in the hope of aborting him before he can appear) and all the 
>>>fuss 
>>>>over whether it was Krishnamurti or Aleister Crowley or even L. Ron 
>>>>Hubbard is missing the point.
>>>>
>>>>We can ignore crooks like Sai Baba Booey and crazy old Ben Creme for 
>the 
>>
>>>>moment.
>>>>
>>>>If there were to be a world teacher, that individual would not have to 
>>>>appear in public at all. He could be totally obscure, sitting in his 
>>>living 
>>>>room, watching reruns of old game shows on cable, an putting the 
>>>information 
>>>>directly into the minds of the people prepared to receive it without 
>>them 
>>>>even knowing that he exists or that the information, the ideas as it 
>>>were, 
>>>>came from any source other than their own minds. The techniques are 
>>>>certainly simple enough. Anyone can master them in a few days. Which is 
>>>why the 
>>>>dugpa stuff is so silly. There is nothing they can do that anyone else 
>>>>cannot do and probably are.
>>>>
>>>>It is obvious that the idea of a World Teacher, wandering the earth 
>>>>spreading teaching to the hungry masses is a simple failure to 
>>understand 
>>>how 
>>>>information can be spread. It is from a mindset locked into archaic and 
>>>>fundamentally clumsy means of communication, voice, the written word, 
>>>personal 
>>>>appearance, even video. There is no need for any of that and one 
>wonders 
>>>>why those called masters of the wisdom, who frankly do not, in 
>>>retrospect, 
>>>>seem to have been masters of much of anything but falling off their 
>>>flying 
>>>>carpets, would not have realized that. 
>>>>
>>>>The search is a waste of time and energy. If there really is a world 
>>>>teacher running around loose somewhere, he has no need to be found, no 
>>>desire to 
>>>>be public. That would just get in the way and be a distraction.
>>>>
>>>>It is time to face reality and forget all the nonsense that has been 
>>>>written in the past by people who either did not know what they were 
>>>talking 
>>>>about or who had a vested interest in public ignorance.
>>>>
>>>>Chuck the heretic
>>>>********* ********* <WBR<WBR< WBR> * **A Good Credit Score is 700 or 
>Above. 
>>See 
>>>yours
>>>>steps! 
>>>>(____http://pr.atwola. _ (http://pr.atwola. /) _ (_http://pr.atwola. _ 
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>>>
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