Theos-Talk Archives (July 2009 Message tt00241)

Well, nobility is not something I am usually accused of.  But it  really is 
simple practicality.  What matters is the idea.  When you  let your ego get 
in the way and insist that you get the credit for it, people  are reacting 
to you, not to the idea.  If they like you, they will like the  idea, not 
matter what the merits.  If they dislike you, they will reject  the idea, no 
matter what its merits.
 
Chuck the heretic
 
 
In a message dated 7/12/2009 11:09:41 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
silva_cass@yahoo.com writes:

 
 


That's a very noble attitude coming from a heretic!  I'm well  impressed.

Cass

>
>From: "_Drpsionic@aol.Drp_ (mailto:Drpsionic@aol.com) " 
<_Drpsionic@aol.Drp_ (mailto:Drpsionic@aol.com) >
>To: _theos-talk@yahoogrotheos-t_ (mailto:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com) 
>Sent:  Sunday, 12 July, 2009 2:41:40 PM
>Subject: Re: Theos-World Barking up  the wrong tree, as usual
>
>
>
>
>
>It  really does not matter who claims to be the source. What matters is  
>that the idea is out there.
>
>Chuck the  Heretic
>
>
>In a message dated 7/11/2009 9:21:39 P.M.  Central Daylight Time, 
>silva_cass@silva_cass@<WBR>yahoo.
>
>Until some other jerk steals our idea as his  own!
>
>Cass
>
>>
>>From:  "_Drpsionic@From:  "_Drpsionic@<WBR>aFrom:  "_Drps
><_Drpsionic@_Drpsionic@<WBR>aol. Drp_ (m_Drpsionic@<WB>
>>To: _theos-talk@ yahoogrotheos- t_  (mailto:theos-To: _theos-talk@ yahoog
>>Sent: Sunday, 12 July,  2009 2:06:14 AM
>>Subject: Re: Theos-World Barking up the wrong tree,  as  usual
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>People  heal lepers (Hanson's Disease) with  antibiotics.
>>
>>Physical presence gets in the way of the  teacher. It is much more 
>>efficient to simply put the ideas out  into the mahatmasphere and let 
>people pick 
>>up on them. And  people are far more willing to accept an idea that they 
>>think is  their own rather than someone else's.
>>
>>Chuck the  Heretic
>>
>>
>>In a message dated 7/11/2009  5:47:41 A.M. Central Daylight Time, 
>>Mvandertak@ Mvandertak@  <WBR>yahoo.
>>
>>So people are healing the lepers in  their heads then? Whats wrong with 
>>being physically  present?
>>
>>--- On Sat, 7/11/09, Morten Nymann Olesen  <_global-theosophy@ 
>global-thgl_ 
>>(mailto:global-  (mailto:global- <WBR>theos> wrote:
>>
>>From:  Morten Nymann Olesen <_global-theosophy@ global-thgl_  
>>(mailto:global- (mailto:global-  <WBR>theosophy>
>>Subject: Re: Theos-World Barking up the  wrong tree, as usual
>>To: _theos-talk@ yahoogrotheos- t_  (mailto:theos- To: _theos-talk@ yahoog
>>Date: Saturday, July 11,  2009, 12:04 PM
>>
>>Chuck said:
>>"I'm saying we  need to get away from the notion of teachers as 
>>identifiable  
>>agents altogether."
>>
>>Yes, when they are used  as a publicity-stunt.
>>Idries Shah has told clearly about  it:
>>___http://www.katinkah_ (http://www.katinkah/)  _ (_http://www.katinkah_ 
(http://www.katinkah/)   /) __http://wwhttp:_ (http://wwhttp:/)  _  
>(_http://wwhttp:_ (http://wwhttp:/)  /)  //wwhttp: //wwwhttp_ 
>>(__http://www.katinkah_ (http://www.katinkah/)  _ (_http://www.katinkah_ 
(http://www.katinkah/)   /) esselink. net/sufi/ 
>sufi-shah. html) 
>>
>>The  truth Guru's which are not physically known can be and are 
important.  
>>Most New Age Guru's and even present day theosophical lecturers  are only 
>>average human beings, maybe bookworms or cunning orators  and nothing 
else.
>>A tree is known on its fruits, and not on how  cunning it is in cheating 
>>people to believe that throwing money  away is a good idea or that 
>emotional 
>>excitement is the  spiritual highest.
>>
>>- - - - - -  -
>>
>>Idries Shah said:
>>"I believe that the guru  needs his disciples. If he had a sufficient 
>>outlet for his desire  to be a big shot or his feeling of holiness or his 
>wish to  
>>have others dependent on him, he wouldn't be a guru.  
>>
>>I got all that out of my system very early and,  consistent with Sufi 
>>[theosophical] tradition, I believe that  those who don't want to teach 
>are the 
>>ones who can and  should. The West still has a vocation hang-up and has 
>not  
>>yet discovered this. Here, the only recognized achiever is an  obsessive. 
>In 
>>the East we believe that a person who can't  help doing a thing isn't 
>>necessarily the best one to do it. A  compulsive cookie baker may bake 
>very bad 
>>cookies.  "
>>......
>>"Their followers need the guru as much as the  guru needs his followers. 
I 
>>just don't regard it as a religious  operation. I take a guru to be a 
sort 
>>of psychotherapist. At the  very best, he keeps people quiet and 
polarized 
>>around him and  gives some sort of meaning to their lives."
>>......
>>"Why  shouldn't there be room for what we might call "neighborhood  
>>psychotherapy" - the community looking after its own? However, why  it 
>should be 
>>called a spiritual activity rather baffles  me."
>>.......
>>"Some are frankly phonies, and they don't  try to hide it from me. They 
>>think that I am one, too, so when we  meet they begin the most disturbing 
>>conversations. They want to  know how I get money, how I control people, 
>and so  
>>on."
>>......
>>"They actually feel there is  something wrong with what they are doing, 
>and 
>>they feel  better if they talk to somebody else who is doing it. I always 
 
>>tell them that I think it would be much better if they gave up the  guru 
>role 
>>in their own minds and realize that they are  providing a perfectly good 
>>social  service."
>>
>>- - -
>>The question is if the above  words are what the beginners at TS Adyar or 
>>other theosophical  groups are greeted with???
>>
>>M.  Sufilight
>>
>>----- Original Message -----  
>>From: _Drpsionic@aol. Drp_ (mailto:Drpsionic@ From:  _Drpsion
>>To: _theos-talk@ yahoogrotheos- t_ (mailto:theos- To:  _theos-talk@ yahoog
>>Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 8:40  AM
>>Subject: Re: Theos-World Barking up the wrong tree, as  usual
>>
>>Hmmm, let's see. Ghandi never faced a real  opponent, Stalin would have 
>>had him for lunch and Mother Theresa  was a ghoul who fed off the 
energies 
>>of 
>>the dying. I  don't know what they were teaching but it ain't anything I 
>>would  want to learn.
>>
>>I'm saying we need to get away from the  notion of teachers as 
>identifiable 
>>agents  altogether.
>>
>>Chuck the Heretic
>>
>>In  a message dated 7/10/2009 10:22:19 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
>>_silva_cass@ yahoo.sil_ (mailto:silva_ _silva_cass@ yahoo.sil_  (mai
>>
>>So you are saying that World Teachers are known by  their actions rather 
>>than their words? If this is the case one  could argue that Gandhi and 
>>Mother 
>>Theresa were world  teachers.
>>
>>I suppose one can walk with world teachers or  one can walk behind them. 
>>A spiritual evolved soul is probably on  the way to being his/her own 
>world  
>>teacher.
>>
>>Cass
>>
>>>
>>>From:  "__Drpsionic@ aol._Dr_ (mailto:_Drpsionic@ From:  "__Drp
>>(mailto:_Drpsioni(mailto:_Drpsioni<WBR< WBR>@aol.  (mailto:_Drpsionic
>><__Drpsionic@ aol._Dr_ (mailto:_Drpsionic@  __Drpsionic@ aol
>>(mailto:_Drpsioni(mailto:_Drpsioni<WBR<  WBR>@aol. (mailto:_Drpsion>
>>>To: _theos-talk@ To:  _theos-talTo: _theos-_theos- talk@yahoogrothe 
os-t_ 
>>(mailto:theos-  (mailto:theos- <WBR>talk@ yahoo
>>>Sent: Friday, 10 July,  2009 2:48:56 PM
>>>Subject: Theos-World Barking up the wrong tree,  as  usual
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Ok.  The World Teacher thing is fun but the truth is that Theosophist 
>have  
>>>been flying the wrong carpet on it since the idea floated out  of Annie 
>>and 
>>>the Bishop's hats.  
>>>
>>>First, there really has never been an  identifiable person who could be 
>>>considered a "World Teacher"  who had any serious impact in his 
lifetime. 
>>The  
>>>Buddha was just another local nutcase and Jesus got himself  killed. So 
>>>this business about finding out who the next "World  Teacher" was going 
>to 
>>be 
>>>makes about as  much sense as trying to find out who will be the next 
>>Michael  
>>>Jackson (in the hope of aborting him before he can appear) and  all the 
>>fuss 
>>>over whether it was Krishnamurti or  Aleister Crowley or even L. Ron 
>>>Hubbard is missing the  point.
>>>
>>>We can ignore crooks like Sai Baba Booey  and crazy old Ben Creme for 
the  
>
>>>moment.
>>>
>>>If there were  to be a world teacher, that individual would not have to  
>>>appear in public at all. He could be totally obscure, sitting  in his 
>>living 
>>>room, watching reruns of old game  shows on cable, an putting the 
>>information  
>>>directly into the minds of the people prepared to receive it  without 
>them 
>>>even knowing that he exists or that the  information, the ideas as it 
>>were, 
>>>came from any  source other than their own minds. The techniques are  
>>>certainly simple enough. Anyone can master them in a few days.  Which is 
>>why the 
>>>dugpa stuff is so silly. There is  nothing they can do that anyone else 
>>>cannot do and probably  are.
>>>
>>>It is obvious that the idea of a World  Teacher, wandering the earth 
>>>spreading teaching to the hungry  masses is a simple failure to 
>understand 
>>how  
>>>information can be spread. It is from a mindset locked into  archaic and 
>>>fundamentally clumsy means of communication,  voice, the written word, 
>>personal 
>>>appearance, even  video. There is no need for any of that and one 
wonders 
>>>why  those called masters of the wisdom, who frankly do not, in  
>>retrospect, 
>>>seem to have been masters of much of  anything but falling off their 
>>flying 
>>>carpets,  would not have realized that. 
>>>
>>>The search is a  waste of time and energy. If there really is a world 
>>>teacher  running around loose somewhere, he has no need to be found, no  
>>desire to 
>>>be public. That would just get in the  way and be a distraction.
>>>
>>>It is time to face  reality and forget all the nonsense that has been 
>>>written in  the past by people who either did not know what they were 
>>talking  
>>>about or who had a vested interest in public  ignorance.
>>>
>>>Chuck the  heretic
>>>******************<WBR<WBR<WBR> * **A  Good Credit Score is 700 or 
Above. 
>See  
>>yours
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