Theos-Talk Archives (June 2009 Message tt00644)

Given some of the ideas the Masters came up with we had little  choice.
 
Chuck the heretic
 
 
In a message dated 6/28/2009 7:55:25 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
silva_cass@yahoo.com writes:

 
 


Seems to me that there have been a few in the TS who have been loyal to  
their ideas rather than the ideas expressed through the masters!    

Cass

>
>From: preethi muthiah <_seeker_preethi@seeker_pr_ 
(mailto:seeker_preethi@yahoo.com) >
>To:  _theos-talk@yahoogrotheos-t_ (mailto:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com) 
>Sent:  Wednesday, 24 June, 2009 6:56:42 PM
>Subject: Re: Theos-World Re:  Cleansing of bad influences
>
>
>
>
>
>Hi  all,
>
>In a letter from the Masters of the Wisdom to AP Sinnett,  the Master KH 
mentions that we must learn as Theosophists to be loyal to the  Idea rather 
than to Them. I would paraphrase that statement to say that we  must learn to 
be loyal to the Idea rather than to the Society (which is  defined as a 
collection of individuals with a common goal or Object)...the  goal is always 
bigger than its instrument. The Object or Idea of the  Theosophical Society 
is bigger than the Society itself, which is an  instrument. So put rightly, 
and here I am including a point made by Prof CA  Shinde -- a well-wisher, 
committed member-worker at Adyar, a national lecturer  of the Indian Section of 
the TS -- when we last met at Adyar that my leaving  the ES and Adyar is 
going to be loss for these two organizations. ..to put it  rightly, the TS and 
ES and Adyar have had very few "successes" or "gains"  since their 
inception... .
>
>I believe I am not a "loss" to the  TS or ES or Adyar. In fact, i am oned 
with their spirit...One needs to  understand the purpose behind the founding 
of the TS and one would then see  that when an aspirant after the Truth 
finds his/her feet and takes the first  step to speak the Truth as s/he sees 
it, s/he becomes a "success" or "gain"  for the organization founded to be a 
forum where truth seekers can find the  space to explore and express the 
Truth, as they see it.
>
>Seen  this way, Mrs Burnier is definitely a loss to the TS. As are the 
other GC  members who don't do anything to uphold the Truth. as also members of 
the TS  who are even now keeping silent, doing nothing, postponing the 
decisive  moment....
>
>Fraternal  Greetings
>Preethi
>
>--- On Mon, 22/6/09, Anton Rozman  <anton_rozman@ yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>From: Anton Rozman  <anton_rozman@ yahoo.com>
>Subject: Theos-World Re: Cleansing of  bad influences
>To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
>Date: Monday, 22  June, 2009, 9:50 PM
>
>Thanks Roberta; yes, I mean  "unable"!
>
>--- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com,  "robertapimenta26" <robertapimenta26@ 
...>  wrote:
>
>>
>
>> Mr. Rozman,
>
>>  
>
>> You write: "'enable' to reveal their identity", perhaps  you mean 
UNABLE, yes? 
>
>> 
>
>> ES members are  TS members, and in this capacity they should have the 
decency to come out and  speak up, if it's true that the present situation is 
that alarming. It is all  about the TS (Adyar) and its task as vehicle for 
theosophy. If truth is what  members want to go for, so be it, no matter what 
the price is: ES member TS  member, or like me, no member but independent, 
what is there to  loose?
>
>> 
>
>> Roberta
>
>>  
>
>> --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, "Anton Rozman"  <anton_rozman@ > 
wrote:
>
>> >
>
>>  > Dear Roberta and all,
>
>> > 
>
>> >  It is clear that in regard to the critical issues concerning the 
management of  the Theosophical Society the TS Headquarters Administration 
doesn't correspond  directly and publicly with membership and that there was 
number of persons who  in last two years somehow spoke on its behalf having 
access to critical  documents. It is not clear if this highly questionable and 
unconstitutional  way of communication was chosen by TS Headquarters 
Administration itself or  arbitrarily by some individuals or group of people what 
would indicate the  presence of parallel government within the Theosophical 
Society. In addition,  it seems that there is present also strong tendency to 
represent somehow  distorted picture and that there are some TS members who 
are highly alarmed  because of this situation and are trying to convey more 
faithful information  but who are, for various reasons, enable to reveal 
their identity. It is my  impression that until the ES members, who are
>after all members of the  TS, will not be in the position or willing to 
speak publicly about the real  state of affairs and to show their genuine 
concern regarding the fate of the  Theosophical Society, there is great danger 
that we will ultimately lose the  TS as we imagine it.
>
>> > 
>
>> >  Warmest regards,
>
>> > Anton
>
>> >  
>
>> > 
>
>> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogro  ups.com, "robertapimenta26" 
<robertapimenta26@ >  wrote:
>
>> > >
>
>> > > Dear Mr.  Rozman,
>
>> > > 
>
>> > > The  silence from the International President (Adyar) is 
significant, but not  surprising. Some individuals are doing the talking for her, like 
Mr. Pedro  Oliveira, who according to some messages I received is travelling 
through  Europe at the moment. There are alarming stories going round and 
they point to  two main issues: 1) the adminstration of the Adyar estate 
itself, the  contribution of Mrs. Preethi was an example and 2) a secret attempt 
by the  International President to do away with all those who believe that 
she cannot  fulfil her office as International President any longer. Mind 
you, these are,  for as far as I am concerned only rumours, don't want to 
speculate, but does  any of you contributors know more about this? 
>
>> > >  
>
>> > > Roberta
>
>> > > --- In  theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, "Anton Rozman" <anton_rozman@ > 
 wrote:
>
>> > > >
>
>> > > >  Cass,
>
>> > > > 
>
>> > > >  We are all missing the "word of the President", addressing this 
critical  situation, proposing solutions, indicating the way out. Is not this 
silence  possibly crying out that maybe she is not in a position to speak 
on her own  any more?
>
>> > > > 
>
>> > >  > Best regards,
>
>> > > >  Anton
>
>> > > > 
>
>> > > >  
>
>> > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, Cass  Silva <silva_cass@ > 
wrote:
>
>> > > >  >
>
>> > > > > I don't hear any cries of  helplessness coming from Ms Burnier 
unless of course she is hoping that the  bad publicity will go away?
>
>> > > > >  
>
>> > > > > Cass
>
>> > >  > > 
>
>> > > > > 
>
>> >  > > > >
>
>> > > > > >From: Anton  Rozman <anton_rozman@ >
>
>> > > > > >To:  theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
>
>> > > > > >Sent:  Sunday, 21 June, 2009 2:45:39 PM
>
>> > > > >  >Subject: Re: Theos-World Cleansing of bad influences
>
>>  > > > > >
>
>> > > > >  >
>
>> > > > > >
>
>> >  > > > >
>
>> > > > >  >
>
>> > > > > >Dear  Cass,
>
>> > > > > >
>
>> >  > > > >Every patient wants to be cured. Resistance is just sign of  
deep helplessness and is actually cry for help. The only remedy is truth of  
facts which can be very painful, so that some would rather die than expose i
t.  But in this situation we are all patients and we can cure ourselves only 
with  mutual help and humility. No one is above the situation, no one is 
without  guilt. We all allowed it to happen, some more and some less. We are 
all in the  same boat.
>
>> > > > > >
>
>>  > > > > >Best regards,
>
>> > > > >  >Anton
>
>> > > > > >
>
>>  > > > > >--- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, Cass Silva  <silva_cass@ 
....> wrote:
>
>> > > > >  >>
>
>> > > > > >> Anton, the patient  must want to be cured before any healing 
can take place!
>
>>  > > > > >> 
>
>> > > > > >>  Cass
>
>> > > > > >> 
>
>>  > > > > >> 
>
>> > > > > >>  
>
>> > > > > >> 
>
>>  > > > > >> >
>
>> > > > >  >> >From: preethi muthiah <seeker_preethi@  ...>
>
>> > > > > >> >To:  theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
>
>> > > > > >>  >Sent: Saturday, 20 June, 2009 6:29:35 PM
>
>> > >  > > >> >Subject: Re: Theos-World Cleansing of bad  influences
>
>> > > > > >>  >
>
>> > > > > >> >
>
>>  > > > > >> >
>
>> > > > >  >> >
>
>> > > > > >>  >
>
>> > > > > >> >Hi  MKR,
>
>> > > > > >> >
>
>>  > > > > >> >If i could put it more appropriately  cleansing is needed 
overall, but instead of harping on about the "secret  disenfranchising 
attempt made by some of the General Secretaries -- which i  understand was just a 
suggestion rather than a finalized move -- one needs to  look at the reasons 
why this suggestion was even thought about". In treating a  disease, one 
can either look at the symptoms or at the root  cause.
>
>> > > > > >>  >
>
>> > > > > >> >If you start looking  at the root cause of this whole 
problem you will, willy-nilly, trace it back  to the ineffective leadership of the 
current international president (which  she has been over the past 29 
years), Mrs Radha Burnier and the policies she  uses to "rule".
>
>> > > > > >>  >
>
>> > > > > >> >One will also  notice, if one is perceptive, that the 
attempt from Mrs Burnier's lobbyists  has always been to look at the symptoms and 
focus attention there, rather than  to look at the root cause of this whole 
division in the  TS.
>
>> > > > > >> >
>
>>  > > > > >> >One can then look at some of these things  deeply and 
question them or ponder over them: (a) What is all this fear doing  in an 
organization that has altruism as its ideal; (b) Why does the leader of  this 
organization initiate gossip and why has she never thought about the  deep-seated 
effects this kind of behaviour will generate among members; (c)  One would 
expect the head of a spiritual organization to have insight into  human 
nature. Why  has this aspect of Mrs Burnier never found expression  even though 
opportunities for this insight and resultant understanding were  present 
throughout her career as president of the TS, including during the  elections 
and its aftermath? and (d) since we are all supposed to be  intelligent, 
thinking, rational individuals, why, even when the corruption  rampant in Adyar 
is brought to everyone's attention, are we allowing Mrs  Burnier to rule our 
hearts and minds?
>
>> > > > >  >> >
>
>> > > > > >>  >Preethi
>
>> > > > > >>  >
>
>> > > > > >> >--- On Sat, 20/6/09,  MKR <mkr777@gmail. com> wrote:
>
>> > > > >  >> >
>
>> > > > > >> >From: MKR  <mkr777@gmail. com>
>
>> > > > > >>  >Subject: Re: Theos-World Cleansing of bad influences
>
>>  > > > > >> >To: theos-talk@yahoogro  ups.com
>
>> > > > > >> >Date: Saturday,  20 June, 2009, 1:16 AM
>
>> > > > > >>  >
>
>> > > > > >> >Cleansing is needed  more urgently in the West, IMHO. Have 
we forgotten last
>
>>  > > > > >> >
>
>> > > > >  >> >year's failed ultra secret attempt to disenfranchise all of 
us  and handdful
>
>> > > > > >>  >
>
>> > > > > >> >of GC members seize  power to "appoint" the president, thus 
make the
>
>> > >  > > >> >
>
>> > > > > >>  >president a puppet in their hands?
>
>> > > > >  >> >
>
>> > > > > >>  >MKR
>
>> > > > > >>  >
>
>> > > > > >> >Visit www.theosophy.  net
>
>> > > > > >> >
>
>>  > > > > >> >On 6/16/09, preethi muthiah  <seeker_preethi@ yahoo.com> 
wrote:
>
>> > > >  > >> >
>
>> > > > > >>  >>
>
>> > > > > >>  >
>
>> > > > > >>  >>
>
>> > > > > >>  >
>
>> > > > > >>  >>
>
>> > > > > >>  >
>
>> > > > > >> >> Hi  all,
>
>> > > > > >> >
>
>>  > > > > >> >>
>
>> > > > >  >> >
>
>> > > > > >> >> Am  glad we are looking into cleansing here. Cleansing is 
what the TS  and
>
>> > > > > >> >
>
>>  > > > > >> >> especially its heart, Adyar, requires  today...and it is 
we who need to do
>
>> > > > >  >> >
>
>> > > > > >> >> the  cleansing... We members of the Theosophical Society. 
Would you like  to
>
>> > > > > >> >
>
>>  > > > > >> >> join me?
>
>> > >  > > >> >
>
>> > > > > >>  >>
>
>> > > > > >>  >
>
>> > > > > >> >>  Preethi
>
>> > > > > >>  >
>
>> > > > > >>  >>
>
>> > > > > >>  >
>
>> > > > > >> >> --- On Mon,  15/6/09, Cass Silva <silva_cass@ yahoo. 
com<silva_cass% 40yahoo.com>  >
>
>> > > > > >> >
>
>>  > > > > >> >> wrote:
>
>> > >  > > >> >
>
>> > > > > >>  >>
>
>> > > > > >>  >
>
>> > > > > >> >> From: Cass  Silva <silva_cass@ yahoo. com <silva_cass% 
40yahoo.com>  >
>
>> > > > > >> >
>
>>  > > > > >> >> Subject: Re: Theos-World Cleansing of  bad influences
>
>> > > > > >>  >
>
>> > > > > >> >> To:  theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com <theos-talk% 
40yahoogroups.  com>
>
>> > > > > >>  >
>
>> > > > > >> >> Date: Monday,  15 June, 2009, 7:06 AM
>
>> > > > > >>  >
>
>> > > > > >>  >>
>
>> > > > > >>  >
>
>> > > > > >> >> Only that the  smoke from sage cleanses negative spirits?
>
>> > > >  > >> >
>
>> > > > > >>  >>
>
>> > > > > >>  >
>
>> > > > > >> >>  Cass
>
>> > > > > >> >
>
>>  > > > > >> >>
>
>> > > > >  >> >
>
>> > > > > >> >>  >
>
>> > > > > >> >
>
>>  > > > > >> >>
>
>> > > > >  >> >
>
>> > > > > >> >>  >From: MKR <mkr777@gmail. com>
>
>> > > >  > >> >
>
>> > > > > >>  >>
>
>> > > > > >>  >
>
>> > > > > >> >> >To:  theos-talk <theos-talk@ yahoogro ups.com>
>
>> > >  > > >> >
>
>> > > > > >>  >>
>
>> > > > > >>  >
>
>> > > > > >> >> >Sent:  Monday, 15 June, 2009 1:17:44 AM
>
>> > > > >  >> >
>
>> > > > > >>  >>
>
>> > > > > >>  >
>
>> > > > > >> >> >Subject:  Theos-World Cleansing of bad influences
>
>> > > >  > >> >
>
>> > > > > >>  >>
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>> > > > > >>  >
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>> > > > > >> >>  >
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>> > > > >  >> >
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>> > > > > >> >>  >With all the bad entities operating around us and 
perhaps against us  as
>
>> > > > > >> >
>
>>  > > > > >> >>
>
>> > > > >  >> >
>
>> > > > > >> >>  >well, either by themselves, or through some unsuspecting 
deluded  victims,
>
>> > > > > >>  >
>
>> > > > > >>  >>
>
>> > > > > >>  >
>
>> > > > > >> >> >HSO  mentioned that before he and HPB took residence 
anywhere, it  was
>
>> > > > > >> >
>
>>  > > > > >> >>
>
>> > > > >  >> >
>
>> > > > > >> >>  >approved by a Brother or Brothers and it was cleansed of 
 undesirable
>
>> > > > > >>  >
>
>> > > > > >>  >>
>
>> > > > > >>  >
>
>> > > > > >> >> >influences  etc. before they moved in. When the cleansing 
was done,  the
>
>> > > > > >> >
>
>>  > > > > >> >> place
>
>> > > >  > >> >
>
>> > > > > >>  >>
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>> > > > > >>  >
>
>> > > > > >> >> >was vacated  of everyone. It has been reported that 
similar cleansing  was
>
>> > > > > >> >
>
>>  > > > > >> >>
>
>> > > > >  >> >
>
>> > > > > >> >>  >done by Jiddu Krishnamurti.
>
>> > > > >  >> >
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>> > > > > >>  >>
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>> > > > > >>  >
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>> > > > > >> >>  >.
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>> > > > > >>  >>
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>> > > > > >>  >
>
>> > > > > >> >> >Has anyone  read more about the issue of cleansing?
>
>> > > >  > >> >
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>> > > > > >>  >>
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>> > > > > >>  >
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>> > > > > >> >>  >.
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>> > > > > >> >>  >MKR
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>> > > > > >>  >
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>> > > > > >> >>  >.
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>> > > > > >>  >
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>> > > > > >>  >>
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>> > > > > >>  >
>
>> > > > > >> >> >More on  theosophy at www.theosophy. net
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