Theos-Talk Archives (November 2008 Message tt00137)

Dear friends,

I think that we, members of the TS, can do an enormous service to the 
humanity if we will be able to solve the Society's problems in a 
democratic and fraternal manner. This is the reason why efforts to 
reform the Society are worthwhile. 

Morten, you touched, in my opinion, the crucial problem: HPB actually 
said that she is loyal to HSO, not because he is President of the 
Society but because he is loyal to the Theosophical Cause and that 
the degree of her sympathy with the Theosophical Society and Adyar 
depends upon the degree of loyalty of that Society to the Cause. 
Should it break away or show disloyalty to that Cause, and the 
original program of the Society, she would shake it off like dust 
from her feet. 

In that way she established, in my view, a very dangerous model, 
namely that any person who considers herself/himself or is regarded 
by others as a spiritual teacher can arbitrarily decide who is loyal 
to the Cause and original program of the Society and act accordingly. 
And already superficial overview of the TS history shows that those 
who considered themselves or were viewed by others as spiritual 
leaders (who are in touch with Masters or know what Masters thought) 
were at the same time source of disagreements and schisms in the 
Society. This model is still very alive and I think that the Society 
will not be able to solve its problems if it will not be able to 
address this issue properly. 

And Richard's parody is wonderful indication of our ludicrous 
situation.

Warmest regards,
Anton


--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Drpsionic@... wrote:
>
> Choke choke laugh laugh choke laugh!
>  
> The scare part it is that it might be true!
>  
> Chuck the Heretic
>  
>  
> In a message dated 11/8/2008 6:55:16 P.M. Central Standard Time,  
> semockr@... writes:
> 
>  
>  
>  
> I have heard that the Dalai Lama is dropping out of his position 
as  
> figurehead or spokesman for a free Tibet since none of his 
> initiatives  in this regard have had the slightest impact on the 
> communist govt that  has Tibet in its deadly embrace.
> 
> This implys that president elect Obama  has approached him with an 
> offer to join his Administration of Change as  secretary of Ancient 
> Wisdom which is a new department that is being formed  in the 
> executive branch. DK & KH were originally approached for the  
position 
> but they would only agree to precipitate an email now and then by  
way 
> of communication and this was not sufficient contact to satisfy 
the  
> ex-hippies that Obama is seeding his cabinet with.
> 
> For the first  time in history then, the SD has a real chance to 
> replace the Bible and to  have Theosophy occupy its rightful place 
as 
> Law of the Land in the USA.  After this has taken place, the other 
> countrys will fall in line and  Theosophy will experience a 
resurgence 
> that will beggar description of any  previous coup. 
> 
> --- In _theos-talk@yahoogrotheos-t_ (mailto:theos-
talk@yahoogroups.com) ,  
> MKR <mkr777@> wrote:
> >
> > Well said.
> > 
> >  "Proof of the pudding is in the eating."
> > 
> > Looking at the  membership trend over the last 20 years world-
wide 
> outside of
> >  India, there is a continuing steep decline. It continues every  
> minute.
> > 
> > The structure of TS was deliberately setup by the  wise ones with 
> total
> > autonomy at lodge and section levels. So the  buck stops at the 
> sections.
> > 
> > To address any problem, first  correct problem has to be 
identified. 
> Then
> > solutions can be  found.
> > 
> > Today's critical problem of TS is steep decline in  membership in 
all
> > sections outside India. This is obvious. None of the  "leaders" 
> even wants
> > to talk about it, because much of the decline  took place in 
their 
> watch and
> > they have no explanation.
> >  
> > Meddling with International Rules is not going to do anything to  
> address the
> > membership growth, because TS is not a spiritual  organization 
held 
> together
> > by blind followers with blind faith and  blind beliefs.
> > 
> > It is all about a handful of GC members trying  to do away with 
> members'
> > rights and seize power. That would give  access to all the assets 
> which they
> > can spend as they want. In  addition, they can put their Puppet 
as 
> the
> > President with wings  clipped. Losers will be members, TS and 
> theosophy.
> > 
> > And it  would destroy TS in our life time, as members leave.
> > 
> > That is  where we are today.
> > 
> > MKR
> > 
> > On Sat, Nov 8, 2008  at 6:05 AM, Duane Carpenter 
> <monad_monad_monad_mon
> > >  wrote:
> > 
> > > All membership comes from inspiration. All  inspiration comes 
from
> > > enlightened leadership. It often takes  great luminaries like 
HPB 
> to light a
> > > fire in those around  them. If the structure of the Theosophical
> > > Society keeps out  purposely or by default those of advanced 
> spiritual
> > >  development they will never attract new members. If new and  
> enlightened
> > > leadership do not come into an organization or  institution to 
> give it
> > > continue renewal and spiritual life  that institution will die 
a 
> slow
> > > agonizing death from  bureaucratic minutiae and organizational 
> suffocation.
> > > This is  why some advocate revolution. If you cannot reform and 
> change the
> >  > old structures you either create new ones in there place or 
get 
> out  of the
> > > way and let those more responsive to the new Aquarian  impulses 
do 
> there
> > > work.
> > >
> > >
> >  > DC
> > >
> > >
> > >  ____________  ____  ____ 
> > > From: MKR  <mkr777@>
> > > To: _theos-talk@yahoogrotheos-t_ (mailto:theos-
talk@yahoogroups.com) 
> >  > Sent: Saturday, November 8, 2008 6:46:43 AM
> > > Subject: Re:  Theos-World Re:TS - Are we ready for a coup?
> > >
> > > From an  ordinary intelligent person's view, as I have 
mentioned 
> several
> >  > time
> > > previously, the most urgent real issue facing the TS is  NOT 
> changing the
> > > rules.
> > >
> > > It is the  rapid and continuing decline in the number of 
members 
> in all the
> >  > sections outside India.
> > >
> > > TS was setup as fully  autonomous at lodge and section levels. 
So 
> the
> > >  problem
> > > is the problem of section leaders and hard work of the  members 
in 
> the
> > > section. Any amount of meddling with the rules  is going to do 
> nothing to
> > > address the problem. The only thing  that will do to by 
tweaking 
> and
> > > meddling
> > > with  the rules is for the GC members to disenfranchise the 
> members and
> >  > seize
> > > the control of the presidency and thus effectively  making the 
> president a
> > > puppet in the hands of a few GC  members.
> > >
> > > Once this happens, in our life time we will  see the end of TS 
> because we
> > > are
> > > not like other  spiritual organizations whose basis is blind 
faith 
> and blind
> > >  beliefs.
> > >
> > > Has anyone seen any GC member ever mention  the membership 
decline 
> issue? It
> > > is a very sorry state of  affairs.
> > >
> > > mkr
> > >
> > >
> >  >
> > > On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 2:17 AM, Anton Rozman  <anton_rozman@ant>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >  > Dear friends,
> > > >
> > > > What is the main  interest of the Theosophical Society as an
> > > > international  institution or common interest of all members 
of 
> the
> > > >  Theosophical Society?
> > > >
> > > > In first place, to  neutralize all partial interests of 
> individual
> > > > members  or groups of members which identify themselves with 
> those of
> > >  > the Theosophical Society and in that way to be able to 
realize  
> its
> > > > objects on the basis of its constitutional platform.  In 
present
> > > > situation common interest is wholly absent and  crippled.
> > > >
> > > > The scissors and linen to  overcome it are wholly in the 
hands 
> of the
> > > > elected  President. She, and only she, has received a mandate 
to 
> unify
> > >  > the Society under a common interest. She has the power and  
> authority
> > > > to do that.
> > > >
> > >  > It is obvious that routine proceedings aren't enough to 
solve  
> actual
> > > > problem. According to Rules and Regulations the  President has
> > > > authority to: â?¦ a special meeting may be  called at any 
time by 
> the
> > > > President â?¦ the President at  his discretion may call such 
> members to
> > > > a meeting for  the purpose of study and discussion of any 
matters
> > > >  concerning the Society that he considers appropriate to lay 
> before
> >  > > them. The meeting may then forward to the President its 
report  
> on
> > > > such matters and may make recommendations thereon.  Such 
meetings
> > > > shall be of a consultative nature without  administrative or
> > > > legislative authority, or may be of a  legislative nature 
upon 
> the
> > > > decision of the General  Council taken at least one year in 
> advance.
> > > > In the event  the President does not himself attend such a 
> meeting he
> > > >  may appoint the Vice-President or some other member of the 
> General
> >  > > Council to preside in his stead.
> > > >
> > > >  On the basis of these Regulations and with the use of 
internet
> > >  > technology an extended discussion panel can be formed to 
address
> >  > > important critical issues. With making such discussion 
panel  
> public
> > > > the Theosophical Society would show to its  members and 
public in
> > > > general that it is able to overcome  divisions and find a 
common
> > > > interest according to the  philosophy the Society is 
promoting.
> > > >
> > > > This  is, in my opinion, the only way out from the death 
alley 
> we are
> >  > > catched in.
> > > >
> > > > Warmest  regards,
> > > > Anton
> > > >
> > > >
> >  > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this  message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >  ------------  ----  ----  -
> > >
> > >  Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >  >
> > > ------------ -------- -------- -----
> >  >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> >  >
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message  have been  removed]
> >
> 
> 
>  
> 
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