Theos-Talk Archives (November 2008 Message tt00216)

There are 3 branches of the TS in the US that I know of:

1- Katherine Tingley's group that landed in Pasadena Calif with GdeP 
the moon walker

2- the WQ Judge group in NYC & LA that I favor. I went to a few of 
the Sunday eve lectures in downtown LA and at the Hollywood branch.

3- the group in Wheaton that has a lending library

The first two have their own version if the SD (1-vol & 2-vol) and 
the third group sells both versions but they each have the same 
content. 

Regrettably, the masters abandoned the TS when HPB passed away which 
gives one pause about just who is the arbiter of ancient wisdom and 
the TS.

--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Anton Rozman" <anton_rozman@...> 
wrote:
>
> Dear friends,
> 
> I think that we, members of the TS, can do an enormous service to 
the 
> humanity if we will be able to solve the Society's problems in a 
> democratic and fraternal manner. This is the reason why efforts to 
> reform the Society are worthwhile. 
> 
> Morten, you touched, in my opinion, the crucial problem: HPB 
actually 
> said that she is loyal to HSO, not because he is President of the 
> Society but because he is loyal to the Theosophical Cause and that 
> the degree of her sympathy with the Theosophical Society and Adyar 
> depends upon the degree of loyalty of that Society to the Cause. 
> Should it break away or show disloyalty to that Cause, and the 
> original program of the Society, she would shake it off like dust 
> from her feet. 
> 
> In that way she established, in my view, a very dangerous model, 
> namely that any person who considers herself/himself or is regarded 
> by others as a spiritual teacher can arbitrarily decide who is 
loyal 
> to the Cause and original program of the Society and act 
accordingly. 
> And already superficial overview of the TS history shows that those 
> who considered themselves or were viewed by others as spiritual 
> leaders (who are in touch with Masters or know what Masters 
thought) 
> were at the same time source of disagreements and schisms in the 
> Society. This model is still very alive and I think that the 
Society 
> will not be able to solve its problems if it will not be able to 
> address this issue properly. 
> 
> And Richard's parody is wonderful indication of our ludicrous 
> situation.
> 
> Warmest regards,
> Anton
> 
> 
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Drpsionic@ wrote:
> >
> > Choke choke laugh laugh choke laugh!
> >  
> > The scare part it is that it might be true!
> >  
> > Chuck the Heretic
> >  
> >  
> > In a message dated 11/8/2008 6:55:16 P.M. Central Standard Time,  
> > semockr@ writes:
> > 
> >  
> >  
> >  
> > I have heard that the Dalai Lama is dropping out of his position 
> as  
> > figurehead or spokesman for a free Tibet since none of his 
> > initiatives  in this regard have had the slightest impact on the 
> > communist govt that  has Tibet in its deadly embrace.
> > 
> > This implys that president elect Obama  has approached him with 
an 
> > offer to join his Administration of Change as  secretary of 
Ancient 
> > Wisdom which is a new department that is being formed  in the 
> > executive branch. DK & KH were originally approached for the  
> position 
> > but they would only agree to precipitate an email now and then 
by  
> way 
> > of communication and this was not sufficient contact to satisfy 
> the  
> > ex-hippies that Obama is seeding his cabinet with.
> > 
> > For the first  time in history then, the SD has a real chance to 
> > replace the Bible and to  have Theosophy occupy its rightful 
place 
> as 
> > Law of the Land in the USA.  After this has taken place, the 
other 
> > countrys will fall in line and  Theosophy will experience a 
> resurgence 
> > that will beggar description of any  previous coup. 
> > 
> > --- In _theos-talk@yahoogrotheos-t_ (mailto:theos-
> talk@yahoogroups.com) ,  
> > MKR <mkr777@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Well said.
> > > 
> > >  "Proof of the pudding is in the eating."
> > > 
> > > Looking at the  membership trend over the last 20 years world-
> wide 
> > outside of
> > >  India, there is a continuing steep decline. It continues 
every  
> > minute.
> > > 
> > > The structure of TS was deliberately setup by the  wise ones 
with 
> > total
> > > autonomy at lodge and section levels. So the  buck stops at the 
> > sections.
> > > 
> > > To address any problem, first  correct problem has to be 
> identified. 
> > Then
> > > solutions can be  found.
> > > 
> > > Today's critical problem of TS is steep decline in  membership 
in 
> all
> > > sections outside India. This is obvious. None of the  "leaders" 
> > even wants
> > > to talk about it, because much of the decline  took place in 
> their 
> > watch and
> > > they have no explanation.
> > >  
> > > Meddling with International Rules is not going to do anything 
to  
> > address the
> > > membership growth, because TS is not a spiritual  organization 
> held 
> > together
> > > by blind followers with blind faith and  blind beliefs.
> > > 
> > > It is all about a handful of GC members trying  to do away with 
> > members'
> > > rights and seize power. That would give  access to all the 
assets 
> > which they
> > > can spend as they want. In  addition, they can put their Puppet 
> as 
> > the
> > > President with wings  clipped. Losers will be members, TS and 
> > theosophy.
> > > 
> > > And it  would destroy TS in our life time, as members leave.
> > > 
> > > That is  where we are today.
> > > 
> > > MKR
> > > 
> > > On Sat, Nov 8, 2008  at 6:05 AM, Duane Carpenter 
> > <monad_monad_monad_mon
> > > >  wrote:
> > > 
> > > > All membership comes from inspiration. All  inspiration comes 
> from
> > > > enlightened leadership. It often takes  great luminaries like 
> HPB 
> > to light a
> > > > fire in those around  them. If the structure of the 
Theosophical
> > > > Society keeps out  purposely or by default those of advanced 
> > spiritual
> > > >  development they will never attract new members. If new and  
> > enlightened
> > > > leadership do not come into an organization or  institution 
to 
> > give it
> > > > continue renewal and spiritual life  that institution will 
die 
> a 
> > slow
> > > > agonizing death from  bureaucratic minutiae and 
organizational 
> > suffocation.
> > > > This is  why some advocate revolution. If you cannot reform 
and 
> > change the
> > >  > old structures you either create new ones in there place or 
> get 
> > out  of the
> > > > way and let those more responsive to the new Aquarian  
impulses 
> do 
> > there
> > > > work.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >  > DC
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >  ____________  ____  ____ 
> > > > From: MKR  <mkr777@>
> > > > To: _theos-talk@yahoogrotheos-t_ (mailto:theos-
> talk@yahoogroups.com) 
> > >  > Sent: Saturday, November 8, 2008 6:46:43 AM
> > > > Subject: Re:  Theos-World Re:TS - Are we ready for a coup?
> > > >
> > > > From an  ordinary intelligent person's view, as I have 
> mentioned 
> > several
> > >  > time
> > > > previously, the most urgent real issue facing the TS is  NOT 
> > changing the
> > > > rules.
> > > >
> > > > It is the  rapid and continuing decline in the number of 
> members 
> > in all the
> > >  > sections outside India.
> > > >
> > > > TS was setup as fully  autonomous at lodge and section 
levels. 
> So 
> > the
> > > >  problem
> > > > is the problem of section leaders and hard work of the  
members 
> in 
> > the
> > > > section. Any amount of meddling with the rules  is going to 
do 
> > nothing to
> > > > address the problem. The only thing  that will do to by 
> tweaking 
> > and
> > > > meddling
> > > > with  the rules is for the GC members to disenfranchise the 
> > members and
> > >  > seize
> > > > the control of the presidency and thus effectively  making 
the 
> > president a
> > > > puppet in the hands of a few GC  members.
> > > >
> > > > Once this happens, in our life time we will  see the end of 
TS 
> > because we
> > > > are
> > > > not like other  spiritual organizations whose basis is blind 
> faith 
> > and blind
> > > >  beliefs.
> > > >
> > > > Has anyone seen any GC member ever mention  the membership 
> decline 
> > issue? It
> > > > is a very sorry state of  affairs.
> > > >
> > > > mkr
> > > >
> > > >
> > >  >
> > > > On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 2:17 AM, Anton Rozman  
<anton_rozman@ant>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >  > Dear friends,
> > > > >
> > > > > What is the main  interest of the Theosophical Society as an
> > > > > international  institution or common interest of all 
members 
> of 
> > the
> > > > >  Theosophical Society?
> > > > >
> > > > > In first place, to  neutralize all partial interests of 
> > individual
> > > > > members  or groups of members which identify themselves 
with 
> > those of
> > > >  > the Theosophical Society and in that way to be able to 
> realize  
> > its
> > > > > objects on the basis of its constitutional platform.  In 
> present
> > > > > situation common interest is wholly absent and  crippled.
> > > > >
> > > > > The scissors and linen to  overcome it are wholly in the 
> hands 
> > of the
> > > > > elected  President. She, and only she, has received a 
mandate 
> to 
> > unify
> > > >  > the Society under a common interest. She has the power 
and  
> > authority
> > > > > to do that.
> > > > >
> > > >  > It is obvious that routine proceedings aren't enough to 
> solve  
> > actual
> > > > > problem. According to Rules and Regulations the  President 
has
> > > > > authority to: â?¦ a special meeting may be  called at any 
> time by 
> > the
> > > > > President â?¦ the President at  his discretion may call 
such 
> > members to
> > > > > a meeting for  the purpose of study and discussion of any 
> matters
> > > > >  concerning the Society that he considers appropriate to 
lay 
> > before
> > >  > > them. The meeting may then forward to the President its 
> report  
> > on
> > > > > such matters and may make recommendations thereon.  Such 
> meetings
> > > > > shall be of a consultative nature without  administrative or
> > > > > legislative authority, or may be of a  legislative nature 
> upon 
> > the
> > > > > decision of the General  Council taken at least one year in 
> > advance.
> > > > > In the event  the President does not himself attend such a 
> > meeting he
> > > > >  may appoint the Vice-President or some other member of the 
> > General
> > >  > > Council to preside in his stead.
> > > > >
> > > > >  On the basis of these Regulations and with the use of 
> internet
> > > >  > technology an extended discussion panel can be formed to 
> address
> > >  > > important critical issues. With making such discussion 
> panel  
> > public
> > > > > the Theosophical Society would show to its  members and 
> public in
> > > > > general that it is able to overcome  divisions and find a 
> common
> > > > > interest according to the  philosophy the Society is 
> promoting.
> > > > >
> > > > > This  is, in my opinion, the only way out from the death 
> alley 
> > we are
> > >  > > catched in.
> > > > >
> > > > > Warmest  regards,
> > > > > Anton
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >  > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this  message have been removed]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >  ------------  ----  ----  -
> > > >
> > > >  Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > >  >
> > > > ------------ -------- -------- -----
> > >  >
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > >  >
> > > >
> > > 
> > > 
> > > [Non-text portions of this message  have been  removed]
> > >
> > 
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > **************AOL Search: Your one stop for directions, recipes 
and 
> all other 
> > Holiday needs. Search Now. 
> > 
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212792382x1200798498/aol?
> redir=http://searchblog.aol.com/2008/11/04/happy-holidays-from
> > -aol-search/?ncid=emlcntussear00000001)
> > 
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>