Theos-Talk Archives (November 2008 Message tt00138)

Dear Anton and friends

My views are:

Anton wrote:
"In that way she established, in my view, a very dangerous model, 
namely that any person who considers herself/himself or is regarded 
by others as a spiritual teacher can arbitrarily decide who is loyal 
to the Cause and original program of the Society and act accordingly. "


M. Sufilight says:
Why is that a dangerous model?

The main idea with the TS was and is hopefully, that each member will be strong enough to become a nucleus in herself or himself. So creating a new TS running parallel with the present TS is not bad at all if the present TS is not running properly.


Each member are only a member volunterely.

Each group its own nucleus.
One should know one on ones fruits.
And importantly: One should recognize truth when it is proven.

"The bitter truth is that before man can know his own inadequacy, or the
competence of another man or institution, he must first learn something
which will enable him to perceive both. Note well that his perception
itself is a product of right study; not of instinct or emotional
attraction to the individual, nor yet of desiring to 'go it alone'. This
is 'Learning How To
Learn." (Idries Shah)


This is the idea of TS and the beginning to Chela-ship.


M. Sufilight


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Anton Rozman 
  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 7:05 AM
  Subject: Theos-World Re:TS - Are we ready for a coup?


  Dear friends,

  I think that we, members of the TS, can do an enormous service to the 
  humanity if we will be able to solve the Society's problems in a 
  democratic and fraternal manner. This is the reason why efforts to 
  reform the Society are worthwhile. 

  Morten, you touched, in my opinion, the crucial problem: HPB actually 
  said that she is loyal to HSO, not because he is President of the 
  Society but because he is loyal to the Theosophical Cause and that 
  the degree of her sympathy with the Theosophical Society and Adyar 
  depends upon the degree of loyalty of that Society to the Cause. 
  Should it break away or show disloyalty to that Cause, and the 
  original program of the Society, she would shake it off like dust 
  from her feet. 

  In that way she established, in my view, a very dangerous model, 
  namely that any person who considers herself/himself or is regarded 
  by others as a spiritual teacher can arbitrarily decide who is loyal 
  to the Cause and original program of the Society and act accordingly. 
  And already superficial overview of the TS history shows that those 
  who considered themselves or were viewed by others as spiritual 
  leaders (who are in touch with Masters or know what Masters thought) 
  were at the same time source of disagreements and schisms in the 
  Society. This model is still very alive and I think that the Society 
  will not be able to solve its problems if it will not be able to 
  address this issue properly. 

  And Richard's parody is wonderful indication of our ludicrous 
  situation.

  Warmest regards,
  Anton

  --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Drpsionic@... wrote:
  >
  > Choke choke laugh laugh choke laugh!
  > 
  > The scare part it is that it might be true!
  > 
  > Chuck the Heretic
  > 
  > 
  > In a message dated 11/8/2008 6:55:16 P.M. Central Standard Time, 
  > semockr@... writes:
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > I have heard that the Dalai Lama is dropping out of his position 
  as 
  > figurehead or spokesman for a free Tibet since none of his 
  > initiatives in this regard have had the slightest impact on the 
  > communist govt that has Tibet in its deadly embrace.
  > 
  > This implys that president elect Obama has approached him with an 
  > offer to join his Administration of Change as secretary of Ancient 
  > Wisdom which is a new department that is being formed in the 
  > executive branch. DK & KH were originally approached for the 
  position 
  > but they would only agree to precipitate an email now and then by 
  way 
  > of communication and this was not sufficient contact to satisfy 
  the 
  > ex-hippies that Obama is seeding his cabinet with.
  > 
  > For the first time in history then, the SD has a real chance to 
  > replace the Bible and to have Theosophy occupy its rightful place 
  as 
  > Law of the Land in the USA. After this has taken place, the other 
  > countrys will fall in line and Theosophy will experience a 
  resurgence 
  > that will beggar description of any previous coup. 
  > 
  > --- In _theos-talk@yahoogrotheos-t_ (mailto:theos-
  talk@yahoogroups.com) , 
  > MKR <mkr777@> wrote:
  > >
  > > Well said.
  > > 
  > > "Proof of the pudding is in the eating."
  > > 
  > > Looking at the membership trend over the last 20 years world-
  wide 
  > outside of
  > > India, there is a continuing steep decline. It continues every 
  > minute.
  > > 
  > > The structure of TS was deliberately setup by the wise ones with 
  > total
  > > autonomy at lodge and section levels. So the buck stops at the 
  > sections.
  > > 
  > > To address any problem, first correct problem has to be 
  identified. 
  > Then
  > > solutions can be found.
  > > 
  > > Today's critical problem of TS is steep decline in membership in 
  all
  > > sections outside India. This is obvious. None of the "leaders" 
  > even wants
  > > to talk about it, because much of the decline took place in 
  their 
  > watch and
  > > they have no explanation.
  > > 
  > > Meddling with International Rules is not going to do anything to 
  > address the
  > > membership growth, because TS is not a spiritual organization 
  held 
  > together
  > > by blind followers with blind faith and blind beliefs.
  > > 
  > > It is all about a handful of GC members trying to do away with 
  > members'
  > > rights and seize power. That would give access to all the assets 
  > which they
  > > can spend as they want. In addition, they can put their Puppet 
  as 
  > the
  > > President with wings clipped. Losers will be members, TS and 
  > theosophy.
  > > 
  > > And it would destroy TS in our life time, as members leave.
  > > 
  > > That is where we are today.
  > > 
  > > MKR
  > > 
  > > On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 6:05 AM, Duane Carpenter 
  > <monad_monad_monad_mon
  > > > wrote:
  > > 
  > > > All membership comes from inspiration. All inspiration comes 
  from
  > > > enlightened leadership. It often takes great luminaries like 
  HPB 
  > to light a
  > > > fire in those around them. If the structure of the Theosophical
  > > > Society keeps out purposely or by default those of advanced 
  > spiritual
  > > > development they will never attract new members. If new and 
  > enlightened
  > > > leadership do not come into an organization or institution to 
  > give it
  > > > continue renewal and spiritual life that institution will die 
  a 
  > slow
  > > > agonizing death from bureaucratic minutiae and organizational 
  > suffocation.
  > > > This is why some advocate revolution. If you cannot reform and 
  > change the
  > > > old structures you either create new ones in there place or 
  get 
  > out of the
  > > > way and let those more responsive to the new Aquarian impulses 
  do 
  > there
  > > > work.
  > > >
  > > >
  > > > DC
  > > >
  > > >
  > > > ____________ ____ ____ 
  > > > From: MKR <mkr777@>
  > > > To: _theos-talk@yahoogrotheos-t_ (mailto:theos-
  talk@yahoogroups.com) 
  > > > Sent: Saturday, November 8, 2008 6:46:43 AM
  > > > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re:TS - Are we ready for a coup?
  > > >
  > > > From an ordinary intelligent person's view, as I have 
  mentioned 
  > several
  > > > time
  > > > previously, the most urgent real issue facing the TS is NOT 
  > changing the
  > > > rules.
  > > >
  > > > It is the rapid and continuing decline in the number of 
  members 
  > in all the
  > > > sections outside India.
  > > >
  > > > TS was setup as fully autonomous at lodge and section levels. 
  So 
  > the
  > > > problem
  > > > is the problem of section leaders and hard work of the members 
  in 
  > the
  > > > section. Any amount of meddling with the rules is going to do 
  > nothing to
  > > > address the problem. The only thing that will do to by 
  tweaking 
  > and
  > > > meddling
  > > > with the rules is for the GC members to disenfranchise the 
  > members and
  > > > seize
  > > > the control of the presidency and thus effectively making the 
  > president a
  > > > puppet in the hands of a few GC members.
  > > >
  > > > Once this happens, in our life time we will see the end of TS 
  > because we
  > > > are
  > > > not like other spiritual organizations whose basis is blind 
  faith 
  > and blind
  > > > beliefs.
  > > >
  > > > Has anyone seen any GC member ever mention the membership 
  decline 
  > issue? It
  > > > is a very sorry state of affairs.
  > > >
  > > > mkr
  > > >
  > > >
  > > >
  > > > On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 2:17 AM, Anton Rozman <anton_rozman@ant>
  > > > wrote:
  > > >
  > > > > Dear friends,
  > > > >
  > > > > What is the main interest of the Theosophical Society as an
  > > > > international institution or common interest of all members 
  of 
  > the
  > > > > Theosophical Society?
  > > > >
  > > > > In first place, to neutralize all partial interests of 
  > individual
  > > > > members or groups of members which identify themselves with 
  > those of
  > > > > the Theosophical Society and in that way to be able to 
  realize 
  > its
  > > > > objects on the basis of its constitutional platform. In 
  present
  > > > > situation common interest is wholly absent and crippled.
  > > > >
  > > > > The scissors and linen to overcome it are wholly in the 
  hands 
  > of the
  > > > > elected President. She, and only she, has received a mandate 
  to 
  > unify
  > > > > the Society under a common interest. She has the power and 
  > authority
  > > > > to do that.
  > > > >
  > > > > It is obvious that routine proceedings aren't enough to 
  solve 
  > actual
  > > > > problem. According to Rules and Regulations the President has
  > > > > authority to: Ãâ a special meeting may be called at any 
  time by 
  > the
  > > > > President Ãâ the President at his discretion may call such 
  > members to
  > > > > a meeting for the purpose of study and discussion of any 
  matters
  > > > > concerning the Society that he considers appropriate to lay 
  > before
  > > > > them. The meeting may then forward to the President its 
  report 
  > on
  > > > > such matters and may make recommendations thereon. Such 
  meetings
  > > > > shall be of a consultative nature without administrative or
  > > > > legislative authority, or may be of a legislative nature 
  upon 
  > the
  > > > > decision of the General Council taken at least one year in 
  > advance.
  > > > > In the event the President does not himself attend such a 
  > meeting he
  > > > > may appoint the Vice-President or some other member of the 
  > General
  > > > > Council to preside in his stead.
  > > > >
  > > > > On the basis of these Regulations and with the use of 
  internet
  > > > > technology an extended discussion panel can be formed to 
  address
  > > > > important critical issues. With making such discussion 
  panel 
  > public
  > > > > the Theosophical Society would show to its members and 
  public in
  > > > > general that it is able to overcome divisions and find a 
  common
  > > > > interest according to the philosophy the Society is 
  promoting.
  > > > >
  > > > > This is, in my opinion, the only way out from the death 
  alley 
  > we are
  > > > > catched in.
  > > > >
  > > > > Warmest regards,
  > > > > Anton
  > > > >
  > > > >
  > > > >
  > > >
  > > >
  > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  > > >
  > > >
  > > > ------------ ---- ---- -
  > > >
  > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
  > > >
  > > >
  > > >
  > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  > > >
  > > >
  > > > ------------ -------- -------- -----
  > > >
  > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
  > > >
  > > >
  > > >
  > > >
  > > 
  > > 
  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  > >
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
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