Theos-Talk Archives (October 2008 Message tt00336)

My views are:
He is telling us that educated people are stupid, and that he is such a one.
:-)


M. Sufilight


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: adelasie 
  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 4:21 AM
  Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: "...we have to preach and popularise a knowledge of theos...


  So you are saying that things like personal honor just have no place 
  in modern life?

  On 13 Oct 2008 at 17:50, Drpsionic@aol.com wrote:

  > 
  > The problem is that things like loyalty, honor, courage and altruism 
  > are
  > basic Victorian values that educated people now, even hearing the 
  > words, will
  > fall down laughing. They are precisely the things that stand in the 
  > way
  > because they represent ways of dealing with people in a different 
  > era. What we are
  > dealing is not a social system but a means of getting to the root of 
  > the
  > nature of cosmos itself.
  > 
  > Chuck the Heretic
  > 
  > 
  > In a message dated 10/13/2008 10:52:01 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
  > adelasie@sbcglobal.net writes:
  > 
  > I see. Well, maybe we could consider making a distinction between the
  > message and the messenger. Theosophy may have emerged in this cycle
  > in trappings of Victorianism (or the American version thereof) but in
  > previous cycles it had other raiment. However, the outside
  > appearance is not very important compared to the inner essence. It is
  > easy for us to become entangled in the trailing clouds of whatever
  > era we are considering, but when we blow aside some of the mist, we
  > might find some useful concepts, whether we call it Theosophy,
  > Buddhiam, Christianity, Hinduism, or whatever. Things like loyalty,
  > honor, courage, altruism. These essentials are what connect us, not
  > the illusionary differences.
  > 
  > Adelasie
  > 
  > On 13 Oct 2008 at 1:25, _Drpsionic@aol.Drp_ (mailto:Drpsionic@aol.com)
  > wrote:
  > 
  > >
  > > I am being deadly serious.
  > >
  > > Theosophy was created in the late 19th century and as such
  > > internalized the
  > > culture of that time. But the culture has changed radically. 
  > Consider
  > > that
  > > when the SD was written, there was no Uncertainty Principal, no
  > > quantum
  > > mechanics, no general relativity. They never heard of the human
  > > genome. And the
  > > culture was radically different, in ways that if one of the founders
  > > landed
  > > in our time they would not recognize it and they would be shocked
  > > beyond
  > > belief.
  > >
  > > The values that society holds dear are vastly different. We little
  > > use for
  > > the ideals of the Victorians and laugh at their concepts of purity
  > > and honor.
  > > The Master KH could call one of his colleagues, "the sternest of the
  > > Khobilligans, Khobilligans,<WBR>" and not be greeted with laughter
  > > was when
  > > someone read it in the Olcott library nearly 20 years ago. Stern is
  > > not a virtue
  > > to us, it is an invitation to get a pie in the face.
  > >
  > > Yet our brethren hold onto antiquated notions of society, quote
  > > language
  > > that no one can make sense of any more and think that psuedo-
  > sanskrit
  > > will
  > > impress people. And we do not have to concern ourselves with the
  > > occasional
  > > censorious buffoon who somehow thinks that his objections matter.
  > >
  > > We need to get rid of the kindling, the deadwood, the things that
  > > just have
  > > not worked. The proper way to look at the old material is not to 
  > just
  > > quote
  > > it and expect everyone to assent. It is to look at it and ask, is 
  > this
  > > really true, or what was the Master drinking when he came up with
  > > that one?
  > >
  > > And thus the truth of the matter is that I really do not care what 
  > the
  > > Masters said, or what the SD says in and of itself. Those are just
  > > words and we
  > > have gazillions of words to choose from. We need to question 
  > question
  > > question and not stop questioning because some moron is impressed
  > > with an imbecile
  > > like Milarepa or thinks that every word from the Mahatmas is a 
  > golden
  > > dripping
  > > from the nose of God.
  > >
  > > And we need most of all to get past this notion that the internal
  > > politics
  > > of the TS somehow matters. who cares who is in charge of mowing the
  > > lawn at
  > > Adyar?
  > >
  > > Can I go too far? Not in this lifetime.
  > >
  > > Chuck, who is very much the Heretic
  > >
  > > In a message dated 10/12/2008 7:44:46 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
  > > _adelasie@sbcglobal.ade_ (mailto:adelasie@sbcglobal.net) writes:
  > >
  > > ROFL...or... ROFL...or R<WBR>could it be u r bein
  > >
  > > On 12 Oct 2008 at 11:47, __Drpsionic@aol._Dr_ 
  > (mailto:_Drpsionic@aol.Drp) _
  > > (mailto:_Drpsionic@aol.Drp_ (mailto:Drpsionic@aol.com) )
  > > wrote:
  > >
  > > >
  > > > Actually I love it when people get steamed at my ideas. It is sort
  > > of
  > > > like
  > > > they suddenly get "kick me" signs taped to their backs.
  > > >
  > > > The problem with some folks is that they think that being a
  > > > Theosophist is
  > > > like being some damned fool Baptist, and everyone sits around
  > > > agreeing with
  > > > everything. No no no. You have to question everything, including
  > > your
  > > > fundamental premises. The Masters are not to be worshipped, their
  > > > words are not
  > > > holy writ. The mere fact that the Chohan said something does not
  > > make
  > > > it true.
  > > > It only means that he was in a rotten mood when he wrote it.
  > > >
  > > > There are times that if I had my way I would burn all those musty
  > > old
  > > > books
  > > > because there are times when it seems that would be the only way 
  > to
  > > > get light
  > > > out of them.
  > > >
  > > > In any event, I will continue to follow my old philosophy of
  > > > rhetoric, which
  > > > says that if someone says you have gone too far, you have not yet
  > > > gone far
  > > > enough.
  > > >
  > > > Chuck the Heretic
  > > >
  > > >
  > > > In a message dated 10/12/2008 9:33:04 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
  > > > __mkr777@gmail._mk_ (mailto:_mkr777@gmail.mkr) _
  > (mailto:_mkr777@gmail.mkr_ (mailto:mkr777@gmail.com) ) writes:
  > > >
  > > > Welcome to the group. I am not the moderator either.
  > > >
  > > > This group has been around for more than a decade and it takes 
  > time
  > > > for
  > > > newbees to settle down here. From time to time you will find gems
  > > > here that
  > > > you cannot find anywhere else. Patience will pay heavy rewards in
  > > the
  > > > long
  > > > run.
  > > >
  > > > mkr
  > > >
  > > > On 10/12/08, alex <_alexmorgan777@_alexmorgan7
  > > > (mailto:_alexmorgan 7@alexmorgan7_
  > > (mailto:_alexmorgan777@alexmorgan7_ 
  > (mailto:alexmorgan777@hotmail.com) ) )
  > > > wrote:
  > > > >
  > > > > Is this funny for everyone here?
  > > > > I'm not sure why the moderator is passively ok with this and 
  > even
  > > > > allows you to showoff your website. Is he still alive? I don't
  > > know
  > > > > about others but I'm starting to get tired of deleting your
  > > messages
  > > > > from my inbox.
  > > > > This crap is not Theosophy, this is just bored goofing around 
  > that
  > > > > spoils things for others, and makes the new comer puke on the
  > > whole
  > > > > group and leave.
  > > > > The Unity of Mind is lacking in here already, I don't think we
  > > need
  > > > > to see this nonsense anymore.
  > > > >
  > > > > Chuck, why don't you try to be like Milarepa and turn things
  > > around,
  > > > > become the first Enlightened man in modern times to abandon the
  > > path
  > > > > of sorcery and black magic?
  > > > > Think about it Chuck, you will increase the membership, peoples
  > > > > participation and get all our votes if you choose to run and
  > > > > promulgate the DOCTRINE of the Buddhas!
  > > > > What do you think? :)
  > > > >
  > > > > Alex
  > > > >
  > > > > --- In _theos-talk@ --- In _t --- In _theo
  > > > __talk@yahoogroups._ta_ (mailto:_talk@yahoogroups.tal) _
  > (mailto:_talk@yahoogroups.tal_ (mailto:talk@yahoogroups.com) ) )
  > > > <theos-talk%theos-talk%<WBthe>,
  > > > > Drpsionic@.. Drpsionic@.
  > > > > >
  > > > > > Ok, the very first thing we have to do is get rid of those
  > > > obsolete
  > > > > ideas of
  > > > > > purity, self-denial, charity, etc and concentrate on finding
  > > what
  > > > > really is
  > > > > > going on.
  > > > > >
  > > > > > Chuck the heretic
  > > > > >
  > > > > >
  > > > > > In a message dated 10/11/2008 4:06:19 P.M. Central Daylight
  > > Time,
  > > > > > danielhcaldwell@ danielhcal
  > > > > >
  > > > > >
  > > > > >
  > > > > >
  > > > > > "For our doctrines to practically react on the so called moral
  > > > code
  > > > > > or the ideas of truthfulness, purity, self-denial, charity,
  > > etc.,
  > > > > we
  > > > > > have to preach and popularise a knowledge of theosophy."
  > > > > >
  > > > > > Quoted from a letter from the Chohan
  > > > > > ____http://www.theosocih_ (http://www.theosoci_/)
  > (_http://www.theosocih_ (http://www.theosoci/) )
  > > __http://www.http:http://www. http_ 
  > (http://www.http:http://wwwhttp:)
  > //wwhtt_ (_http://www.http:http://www_ (http://www.http://wwwhttp:)
  > > //_wwhttp://__ (wwhttp://_/) )
  > > > (__http://www.theosocih_ (http://www.theosoci_/) 
  > (_http://www.theosocih_
  > (http://www.theosoci/) )
  > > __http://www.theoshtthttp://www. _ (http://www.theoshtthttp://www.)
  > _http://__ (http://_/)
  > > (_http://www.theoshtthttp://www. _ (http://www.theoshttp://wwhttp:)
  > //www._) )
  > > > > > (___http://www.theosocih_ (http://www.theosoci_/)
  > (_http://www.theosocih_ (http://www.theosoci/) )
  > > __http://www.theoshtthttp://www. _ (http://www.theoshtthttp://www.)
  > _http://__ (http://_/)
  > > (_http://www.theoshtthttp://www. _ (http://www.theoshttp://wwhttp:)
  > //www._)
  > > > (__http://www.theosocih_ (http://www.theosoci_/) 
  > (_http://www.theosocih_
  > (http://www.theosoci/) ) ety.org/pasadena/
  > > ety.or
  > > ety.or
  > > > > >
  > > > > > So exactly what do we preach and popularise?
  > > > > >
  > > > > > Are there certain teachings that constitute this "theosophy"?
  > > And
  > > > > if
  > > > > > so, what are these teachings?
  > > > > >
  > > > > > And where do we find these teachings?
  > > > > >
  > > > > > And how do we learn about them and study them so that in turn 
  > we
  > > > > > can "preach and popularise" them?
  > > > > >
  > > > > > And who is "we"? The leaders of the TS? Elected officials of 
  > the
  > > > > > TS? Any member of the TS?
  > > > > >
  > > > > > And remember there is more than one TS or theosophical
  > > > organization
  > > > > > or association.
  > > > > >
  > > > > > Can non-members preach and popularise this theosophy?
  > > > > >
  > > > > > And in this same letter, the Chohan tells us:
  > > > > >
  > > > > > ------------ ---- ---- ---- ----
  > > > > > The doctrine we promulgate being the only true one, must, --
  > > > > > supported by such evidence as we are preparing to give become
  > > > > > ultimately triumphant as every other truth. Yet it is 
  > absolutely
  > > > > > necessary to inculcate it gradually enforcing its theories,
  > > > > > unimpeachable facts for those who know, with direct inferences
  > > > > > deducted from and corroborated by the evidence furnished by
  > > modern
  > > > > > exact science.... Theos-sophia, Divine Wisdom...is a synonym 
  > of
  > > > > > truth....
  > > > > > ------------ ---- ---- ---- ----
  > > > > >
  > > > > > This is quite a CLAIM.
  > > > > >
  > > > > > "The doctrine we promulgate being the only true one...."
  > > > > >
  > > > > > So what is this DOCTRINE that is "the ONLY true one" and where
  > > can
  > > > > we
  > > > > > find an exposition of this teaching?
  > > > > >
  > > > > > Is it to be found in THE SECRET DOCTRINE written by H.P.
  > > > Blavatsky?
  > > > > >
  > > > > > Or can it be found in C.W. Leadbeater's and Annie Besant's 
  > "Man,
  > > > > > Whence, How, and Whither: A Record of Clairvoyant 
  > Investigation"
  > > > > >
  > > > > > Or in a book by Alice Bailey? or....in a book by Elizabeth
  > > Claire
  > > > > > Prophet?
  > > > > >
  > > > > > If "we" are to popularise a knowledge of Theosophy, what 
  > exactly
  > > > do
  > > > > > we popularise?
  > > > > >
  > > > > > Is reincarnation part of this DOCTRINE?
  > > > > >
  > > > > > What if I start popularising the teaching of reincarnation 
  > that
  > > > > > includes the provision that humans can sometimes be reborn as
  > > > > > animals?
  > > > > >
  > > > > > Am I faithfully transmitting the DOCTRINE?
  > > > > >
  > > > > > And who is to say that I am faithfully or not transmitting the
  > > > > > DOCTRINE?
  > > > > >
  > > > > > In other words, who is to say what the REAL, TRUE "doctrine" 
  > is?
  > > > > >
  > > > > > The objects of the TS doesn't tell us what the DOCTRINE is all
  > > > > about,
  > > > > > so where and how does one [an inquirer, a newcomer] discover
  > > what
  > > > > the
  > > > > > DOCTRINE is that the Chohan seems to hold in SUCH high regard?
  > > > > >
  > > > > > Daniel
  > > > > > ____http://hpb.cc_ht_ (http://hpb.cc_h_/) (_http://hpb.cc_ht_
  > (http://hpb.cc__/) ) (__http://hpb.cc_ht_ (http://hpb.cc_h_/)
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  > > > (__http://hpb.cc/h_ (http://hpb.cc/_) (_http://hpb.cc/_
  > (http://hpb.cc/) ) ) )
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