Theos-Talk Archives (October 2008 Message tt00352)

On Oct 13, 2008, at 10/13/085:50 PM, Drpsionic@aol.com wrote:

> The problem is that things like loyalty, honor, courage and  
> altruism are
> basic Victorian values that educated people now, even hearing the  
> words, will
> fall down laughing.  They are precisely the things that stand in  
> the way
> because they represent ways of dealing with people in a  different  
> era.  What we are
> dealing is not a social system but a means  of getting to the root  
> of the
> nature of cosmos itself.
>
> Chuck the Heretic

Maybe if we knew the real nature of the Cosmos, we would understand  
why such moral values are so important... Since a lack of them by  
those who would "fall down laughing" is probably what has led to all  
the current problems the world is facing.

Or, are you saying that you just don't give a damn about dealing with  
people as you would want them to deal with you?  Or, perhaps --  
judging by your essay on what's wrong with the study of theosophy  
from both a moral point of view as well as from the scientific one --  
you believe in throwing the baby out with the bath-water?  If so,  
then your "heresy" seems to be just another form of selfish,  
antisocial psycho-pathology.

However, I agree that all this endless talk about the TS  
organization, or arguments about differences between Blavatsky's  
theosophy and the later pseudo theosophists who turned it into a  
religion -- is an utter waste of time and energy.

So, since modern science is getting closer and closer to really  
understanding the nature of the "Cosmos" (to be pretty much the way  
it was outlined in the SD)... Maybe we should get back to studying  
how we can realize our own conscious connection with it... And  
understand that we are all interconnected by a common bond that  
requires moral and ethical responsibility in each of us for the  
benefit of all of us.

LHM
> In a message dated 10/13/2008 10:52:01 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
> adelasie@sbcglobal.net writes:
>
>
> I see. Well, maybe we could consider making a distinction between the
> message and the messenger. Theosophy may have emerged in this cycle
> in  trappings of Victorianism (or the American version thereof) but in
> previous cycles it had other raiment. However, the outside
> appearance  is not very important compared to the inner essence. It is
> easy for us to  become entangled in the trailing clouds of whatever
> era we are  considering, but when we blow aside some of the mist, we
> might find some  useful concepts, whether we call it Theosophy,
> Buddhiam, Christianity,  Hinduism, or whatever. Things like loyalty,
> honor, courage, altruism.  These essentials are what connect us, not
> the illusionary differences.
>
> Adelasie
>
> On 13 Oct 2008 at 1:25, _Drpsionic@aol.Drp_ (mailto:Drpsionic@aol.com)
> wrote:
>
> > I am being deadly serious.
> >
> >  Theosophy was created in the late 19th century and as such
> >  internalized the
> > culture of that time. But the culture has changed  radically.  
> > Consider
> > that
> > when the SD was written, there was  no Uncertainty Principal, no
> > quantum
> > mechanics, no general  relativity. They never heard of the human
> > genome. And the
> >  culture was radically different, in ways that if one of the founders
> >  landed
> > in our time they would not recognize it and they would be  shocked
> > beyond
> > belief.
> >
> > The values that  society holds dear are vastly different. We little
> > use for
> >  the ideals of the Victorians and laugh at their concepts of purity
> >  and honor.
> > The Master KH could call one of his colleagues, "the  sternest of the
> > Khobilligans, Khobilligans,<WBR>" and not be greeted with laughter
> > was when
> > someone read it in the Olcott  library nearly 20 years ago. Stern is
> > not a virtue
> > to us, it  is an invitation to get a pie in the face.
> >
> > Yet our brethren  hold onto antiquated notions of society, quote
> > language
> > that  no one can make sense of any more and think that psuedo- 
> > sanskrit
> >  will
> > impress people. And we do not have to concern ourselves with the
> > occasional
> > censorious buffoon who somehow thinks that his  objections matter.
> >
> > We need to get rid of the kindling, the  deadwood, the things that
> > just have
> > not worked. The proper  way to look at the old material is not to  
> > just
> > quote
> > it and  expect everyone to assent. It is to look at it and ask, is  
> > this
> > really  true, or what was the Master drinking when he came up with
> > that  one?
> >
> > And thus the truth of the matter is that I really do not  care  
> > what the
> > Masters said, or what the SD says in and of itself.  Those are just
> > words and we
> > have gazillions of words to  choose from. We need to question  
> > question
> > question and not stop  questioning because some moron is impressed
> > with an imbecile
> >  like Milarepa or thinks that every word from the Mahatmas is a  
> > golden
> >  dripping
> > from the nose of God.
> >
> > And we need most of  all to get past this notion that the internal
> > politics
> > of the  TS somehow matters. who cares who is in charge of mowing the
> > lawn  at
> > Adyar?
> >
> > Can I go too far? Not in this  lifetime.
> >
> > Chuck, who is very much the Heretic
> >
> > In a message dated 10/12/2008 7:44:46 P.M. Central Daylight  Time,
> > _adelasie@sbcglobal.ade_ (mailto:adelasie@sbcglobal.net)   writes:
> >
> > ROFL...or... ROFL...or R<WBR>could it  be u r bein
> >
> > On 12 Oct 2008 at 11:47, __Drpsionic@aol._Dr_  
> > (mailto:_Drpsionic@aol.Drp) _
> >  (mailto:_Drpsionic@aol.Drp_ (mailto:Drpsionic@aol.com) )
> >  wrote:
> >
> > > Actually I love it when people get  steamed at my ideas. It is  
> > > sort of
> > > like they suddenly get "kick me" signs taped to their backs.
> > >
> > > The problem with some folks is that they think that being a
> > >  Theosophist is
> > > like being some damned fool Baptist, and everyone  sits around
> > > agreeing with
> > > everything. No no no. You  have to question everything, including  
> > > your
> > > fundamental  premises. The Masters are not to be worshipped, their
> > > words are  not holy writ. The mere fact that the Chohan said  
> > > something
> > > does not make  it true. It only means that he was  in a rotten mood
> > > when he wrote it.
> > >
> > > There are times  that if I had my way I would burn all those  
> > > musty old books
> > > because there are times when it seems that would be the  only way to
> > > get light out of them.
> > >
> > > In any event, I will continue to follow my old philosophy  of
> > > rhetoric, which
> > > says that if someone says you  have gone too far, you have not yet
> > > gone far enough.
> > >
> > > Chuck the Heretic
> > >
> > >
> > > In a message dated 10/12/2008 9:33:04 A.M. Central Daylight  Time,
> > > __mkr777@gmail._mk_ (mailto:_mkr777@gmail.mkr) _  writes:
> > >
> > > Welcome to the group. I am not the moderator either.
> > >
> > > This group has been around for more than a decade and it  takes time
> > > for newbees to settle down here. From  time to time you will find  
> > > gems
> > > here that you cannot  find anywhere else. Patience will pay heavy  
> > > rewards
> > > in the long  run.
> > >
> > > mkr
> > >
> > > On 10/12/08, alex <_alexmorgan777@_alexmorgan7  wrote:
> > > > Is this funny for  everyone here?
> > > > I'm not sure why the moderator is passively  ok with this and even
> > > > allows you to showoff your website. Is  he still alive? I don't  
> > > > know
> > > > about others but I'm  starting to get tired of deleting your
> > > >  messages from my inbox.
> > > > This crap is not Theosophy, this is just  bored goofing around that
> > > > spoils things for others, and  makes the new comer puke on the  
> > > > whole
> > > > group and  leave.
> > > > The Unity of Mind is lacking in here already, I don't  think we  
> > > > need
> > > > to see this nonsense anymore.
> > > >
> > > > Chuck, why don't you try to be like Milarepa and  turn things  
> > > > around,
> > > > become the first Enlightened  man in modern times to abandon the  
> > > > path
> > > > of sorcery  and black magic?
> > > > Think about it Chuck, you will increase the  membership, peoples
> > > > participation and get all our votes if  you choose to run and
> > > > promulgate the DOCTRINE of the  Buddhas!
> > > > What do you think? :)
> > > >
> > > > Alex
> > > >
> > > > --- In _theos-talk@ --- In  _t --- In _theo
> > > __talk@yahoogroups._ta_ (mailto:_talk@yahoogroups.tal) _
> > > (mailto:_talk@yahoogroups.tal_ (mailto:talk@yahoogroups.com) ) )
> > > <theos-talk%theos-talk%<WBthe>,
> > > >  Drpsionic@.. Drpsionic@.
> > > > > Ok, the  very first thing we have to do is get rid of those  
> > > > > obsolete
> > > > > ideas of purity,  self-denial, charity, etc and concentrate on  
> > > > > finding
> > > > > what really is going on.
> > > > >
> > > > > Chuck the heretic