Theos-Talk Archives (October 2008 Message tt00320)

So you are saying that things like personal honor just have no place 
in modern life?

On 13 Oct 2008 at 17:50, Drpsionic@aol.com wrote:

> 
> The problem is that things like loyalty, honor, courage and altruism 
> are
> basic Victorian values that educated people now, even hearing the 
> words, will
> fall down laughing. They are precisely the things that stand in the 
> way
> because they represent ways of dealing with people in a different 
> era. What we are
> dealing is not a social system but a means of getting to the root of 
> the
> nature of cosmos itself.
> 
> Chuck the Heretic
> 
> 
> In a message dated 10/13/2008 10:52:01 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
> adelasie@sbcglobal.net writes:
> 
> I see. Well, maybe we could consider making a distinction between the
> message and the messenger. Theosophy may have emerged in this cycle
> in trappings of Victorianism (or the American version thereof) but in
> previous cycles it had other raiment. However, the outside
> appearance is not very important compared to the inner essence. It is
> easy for us to become entangled in the trailing clouds of whatever
> era we are considering, but when we blow aside some of the mist, we
> might find some useful concepts, whether we call it Theosophy,
> Buddhiam, Christianity, Hinduism, or whatever. Things like loyalty,
> honor, courage, altruism. These essentials are what connect us, not
> the illusionary differences.
> 
> Adelasie
> 
> On 13 Oct 2008 at 1:25, _Drpsionic@aol.Drp_ (mailto:Drpsionic@aol.com)
> wrote:
> 
> >
> > I am being deadly serious.
> >
> > Theosophy was created in the late 19th century and as such
> > internalized the
> > culture of that time. But the culture has changed radically. 
> Consider
> > that
> > when the SD was written, there was no Uncertainty Principal, no
> > quantum
> > mechanics, no general relativity. They never heard of the human
> > genome. And the
> > culture was radically different, in ways that if one of the founders
> > landed
> > in our time they would not recognize it and they would be shocked
> > beyond
> > belief.
> >
> > The values that society holds dear are vastly different. We little
> > use for
> > the ideals of the Victorians and laugh at their concepts of purity
> > and honor.
> > The Master KH could call one of his colleagues, "the sternest of the
> > Khobilligans, Khobilligans,<WBR>" and not be greeted with laughter
> > was when
> > someone read it in the Olcott library nearly 20 years ago. Stern is
> > not a virtue
> > to us, it is an invitation to get a pie in the face.
> >
> > Yet our brethren hold onto antiquated notions of society, quote
> > language
> > that no one can make sense of any more and think that psuedo-
> sanskrit
> > will
> > impress people. And we do not have to concern ourselves with the
> > occasional
> > censorious buffoon who somehow thinks that his objections matter.
> >
> > We need to get rid of the kindling, the deadwood, the things that
> > just have
> > not worked. The proper way to look at the old material is not to 
> just
> > quote
> > it and expect everyone to assent. It is to look at it and ask, is 
> this
> > really true, or what was the Master drinking when he came up with
> > that one?
> >
> > And thus the truth of the matter is that I really do not care what 
> the
> > Masters said, or what the SD says in and of itself. Those are just
> > words and we
> > have gazillions of words to choose from. We need to question 
> question
> > question and not stop questioning because some moron is impressed
> > with an imbecile
> > like Milarepa or thinks that every word from the Mahatmas is a 
> golden
> > dripping
> > from the nose of God.
> >
> > And we need most of all to get past this notion that the internal
> > politics
> > of the TS somehow matters. who cares who is in charge of mowing the
> > lawn at
> > Adyar?
> >
> > Can I go too far? Not in this lifetime.
> >
> > Chuck, who is very much the Heretic
> >
> > In a message dated 10/12/2008 7:44:46 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
> > _adelasie@sbcglobal.ade_ (mailto:adelasie@sbcglobal.net) writes:
> >
> > ROFL...or... ROFL...or R<WBR>could it be u r bein
> >
> > On 12 Oct 2008 at 11:47, __Drpsionic@aol._Dr_ 
> (mailto:_Drpsionic@aol.Drp) _
> > (mailto:_Drpsionic@aol.Drp_ (mailto:Drpsionic@aol.com) )
> > wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Actually I love it when people get steamed at my ideas. It is sort
> > of
> > > like
> > > they suddenly get "kick me" signs taped to their backs.
> > >
> > > The problem with some folks is that they think that being a
> > > Theosophist is
> > > like being some damned fool Baptist, and everyone sits around
> > > agreeing with
> > > everything. No no no. You have to question everything, including
> > your
> > > fundamental premises. The Masters are not to be worshipped, their
> > > words are not
> > > holy writ. The mere fact that the Chohan said something does not
> > make
> > > it true.
> > > It only means that he was in a rotten mood when he wrote it.
> > >
> > > There are times that if I had my way I would burn all those musty
> > old
> > > books
> > > because there are times when it seems that would be the only way 
> to
> > > get light
> > > out of them.
> > >
> > > In any event, I will continue to follow my old philosophy of
> > > rhetoric, which
> > > says that if someone says you have gone too far, you have not yet
> > > gone far
> > > enough.
> > >
> > > Chuck the Heretic
> > >
> > >
> > > In a message dated 10/12/2008 9:33:04 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
> > > __mkr777@gmail._mk_ (mailto:_mkr777@gmail.mkr) _
> (mailto:_mkr777@gmail.mkr_ (mailto:mkr777@gmail.com) ) writes:
> > >
> > > Welcome to the group. I am not the moderator either.
> > >
> > > This group has been around for more than a decade and it takes 
> time
> > > for
> > > newbees to settle down here. From time to time you will find gems
> > > here that
> > > you cannot find anywhere else. Patience will pay heavy rewards in
> > the
> > > long
> > > run.
> > >
> > > mkr
> > >
> > > On 10/12/08, alex <_alexmorgan777@_alexmorgan7
> > > (mailto:_alexmorgan 7@alexmorgan7_
> > (mailto:_alexmorgan777@alexmorgan7_ 
> (mailto:alexmorgan777@hotmail.com) ) )
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Is this funny for everyone here?
> > > > I'm not sure why the moderator is passively ok with this and 
> even
> > > > allows you to showoff your website. Is he still alive? I don't
> > know
> > > > about others but I'm starting to get tired of deleting your
> > messages
> > > > from my inbox.
> > > > This crap is not Theosophy, this is just bored goofing around 
> that
> > > > spoils things for others, and makes the new comer puke on the
> > whole
> > > > group and leave.
> > > > The Unity of Mind is lacking in here already, I don't think we
> > need
> > > > to see this nonsense anymore.
> > > >
> > > > Chuck, why don't you try to be like Milarepa and turn things
> > around,
> > > > become the first Enlightened man in modern times to abandon the
> > path
> > > > of sorcery and black magic?
> > > > Think about it Chuck, you will increase the membership, peoples
> > > > participation and get all our votes if you choose to run and
> > > > promulgate the DOCTRINE of the Buddhas!
> > > > What do you think? :)
> > > >
> > > > Alex
> > > >
> > > > --- In _theos-talk@ --- In _t --- In _theo
> > > __talk@yahoogroups._ta_ (mailto:_talk@yahoogroups.tal) _
> (mailto:_talk@yahoogroups.tal_ (mailto:talk@yahoogroups.com) ) )
> > > <theos-talk%theos-talk%<WBthe>,
> > > > Drpsionic@.. Drpsionic@.
> > > > >
> > > > > Ok, the very first thing we have to do is get rid of those
> > > obsolete
> > > > ideas of
> > > > > purity, self-denial, charity, etc and concentrate on finding
> > what
> > > > really is
> > > > > going on.
> > > > >
> > > > > Chuck the heretic
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > In a message dated 10/11/2008 4:06:19 P.M. Central Daylight
> > Time,
> > > > > danielhcaldwell@ danielhcal
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > "For our doctrines to practically react on the so called moral
> > > code
> > > > > or the ideas of truthfulness, purity, self-denial, charity,
> > etc.,
> > > > we
> > > > > have to preach and popularise a knowledge of theosophy."
> > > > >
> > > > > Quoted from a letter from the Chohan
> > > > > ____http://www.theosocih_ (http://www.theosoci_/)
> (_http://www.theosocih_ (http://www.theosoci/) )
> > __http://www.http:http://www. http_ 
> (http://www.http:http://wwwhttp:)
> //wwhtt_ (_http://www.http:http://www_ (http://www.http://wwwhttp:)
> > //_wwhttp://__ (wwhttp://_/) )
> > > (__http://www.theosocih_ (http://www.theosoci_/) 
> (_http://www.theosocih_
> (http://www.theosoci/) )
> > __http://www.theoshtthttp://www. _ (http://www.theoshtthttp://www.)
> _http://__ (http://_/)
> > (_http://www.theoshtthttp://www. _ (http://www.theoshttp://wwhttp:)
> //www._) )
> > > > > (___http://www.theosocih_ (http://www.theosoci_/)
> (_http://www.theosocih_ (http://www.theosoci/) )
> > __http://www.theoshtthttp://www. _ (http://www.theoshtthttp://www.)
> _http://__ (http://_/)
> > (_http://www.theoshtthttp://www. _ (http://www.theoshttp://wwhttp:)
> //www._)
> > > (__http://www.theosocih_ (http://www.theosoci_/) 
> (_http://www.theosocih_
> (http://www.theosoci/) ) ety.org/pasadena/
> > ety.or
> > ety.or
> > > > >
> > > > > So exactly what do we preach and popularise?
> > > > >
> > > > > Are there certain teachings that constitute this "theosophy"?
> > And
> > > > if
> > > > > so, what are these teachings?
> > > > >
> > > > > And where do we find these teachings?
> > > > >
> > > > > And how do we learn about them and study them so that in turn 
> we
> > > > > can "preach and popularise" them?
> > > > >
> > > > > And who is "we"? The leaders of the TS? Elected officials of 
> the
> > > > > TS? Any member of the TS?
> > > > >
> > > > > And remember there is more than one TS or theosophical
> > > organization
> > > > > or association.
> > > > >
> > > > > Can non-members preach and popularise this theosophy?
> > > > >
> > > > > And in this same letter, the Chohan tells us:
> > > > >
> > > > > ------------ ---- ---- ---- ----
> > > > > The doctrine we promulgate being the only true one, must, --
> > > > > supported by such evidence as we are preparing to give become
> > > > > ultimately triumphant as every other truth. Yet it is 
> absolutely
> > > > > necessary to inculcate it gradually enforcing its theories,
> > > > > unimpeachable facts for those who know, with direct inferences
> > > > > deducted from and corroborated by the evidence furnished by
> > modern
> > > > > exact science.... Theos-sophia, Divine Wisdom...is a synonym 
> of
> > > > > truth....
> > > > > ------------ ---- ---- ---- ----
> > > > >
> > > > > This is quite a CLAIM.
> > > > >
> > > > > "The doctrine we promulgate being the only true one...."
> > > > >
> > > > > So what is this DOCTRINE that is "the ONLY true one" and where
> > can
> > > > we
> > > > > find an exposition of this teaching?
> > > > >
> > > > > Is it to be found in THE SECRET DOCTRINE written by H.P.
> > > Blavatsky?
> > > > >
> > > > > Or can it be found in C.W. Leadbeater's and Annie Besant's 
> "Man,
> > > > > Whence, How, and Whither: A Record of Clairvoyant 
> Investigation"
> > > > >
> > > > > Or in a book by Alice Bailey? or....in a book by Elizabeth
> > Claire
> > > > > Prophet?
> > > > >
> > > > > If "we" are to popularise a knowledge of Theosophy, what 
> exactly
> > > do
> > > > > we popularise?
> > > > >
> > > > > Is reincarnation part of this DOCTRINE?
> > > > >
> > > > > What if I start popularising the teaching of reincarnation 
> that
> > > > > includes the provision that humans can sometimes be reborn as
> > > > > animals?
> > > > >
> > > > > Am I faithfully transmitting the DOCTRINE?
> > > > >
> > > > > And who is to say that I am faithfully or not transmitting the
> > > > > DOCTRINE?
> > > > >
> > > > > In other words, who is to say what the REAL, TRUE "doctrine" 
> is?
> > > > >
> > > > > The objects of the TS doesn't tell us what the DOCTRINE is all
> > > > about,
> > > > > so where and how does one [an inquirer, a newcomer] discover
> > what
> > > > the
> > > > > DOCTRINE is that the Chohan seems to hold in SUCH high regard?
> > > > >
> > > > > Daniel
> > > > > ____http://hpb.cc_ht_ (http://hpb.cc_h_/) (_http://hpb.cc_ht_
> (http://hpb.cc__/) ) (__http://hpb.cc_ht_ (http://hpb.cc_h_/)
> > (_http://hpb.cc_h_ (http://hpb.cc_/) ) ) (___http://hpb.cc/ht_
> (http://hpb.cc/h_) (_http://hpb.cc/h_ (http://hpb.cc/_) )
> > > (__http://hpb.cc/h_ (http://hpb.cc/_) (_http://hpb.cc/_
> (http://hpb.cc/) ) ) )
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
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