Theos-Talk Archives (February 2008 Message tt00175)

My views are:

Allright. I see.

As far as I know, I will call the Great White Lodge a semi-physical organisation.
Because its members also opereates on the physical level.

So I find i very important not to throw The Great White Lodge away.

J. Krishnamurti had great tendencies to do throw the Great White Lodge away. I wonder why Master Morya or Master KH never arrived at the Star Camps in Ommen during the Messiah years of J. Krishnamurti in the period 1925-1929?

The year 1925, Alice A. Bailey published her book "A Treatise on Cosmic Fire" saying that this book was the promised or awaited Psychological Key to the Secret Doctrine as it was given by H. P. Blavatsky. I wonder if the Messiah Star Camps had anything to do with this. I think there is a relation, although I cannot prove it.

- - - - - - - - 
We find some very interesting predictions in this book by Alice A. Bailey. Not that I am in agreement with Alice A. Bailey, but the below seems quite interesting to read, when we consider J. Krishnamurti activities in the years 1925-1929.

Here are the quote:


"When the hour has come (and already a few cases are to be found), many cases of over-shadowing will be seen and will demonstrate in a threefold manner. In all countries, in the orient and the occident, prepared disciples and highly evolved men and women, will be found who will be doing the work along the lines intended, and who will be occupying places of prominence which will make them available for the reaching of the many; their bodies also will be sufficiently pure to permit of the over-shadowing. It will only be possible in the case of those who have been consecrated since childhood, who have been servers of the race all their lives, or who, in previous lives, have acquired the right by karma. This threefold over-shadowing will manifest as:
  a.. First. An impression upon the physical brain of the [757] man or woman, of thoughts, plans for work, ideals and intentions which (emanating from the Avatar) will yet be unrecognized by him as being other than his own; he will proceed to put them into action, unconsciously helped by the force flowing in. This is literally a form of higher mental telepathy working out on physical levels.
  b.. Second. The over-shadowing of the chela during his work (such as lecturing, writing, or teaching), and his illumination for service. He will be conscious of this, though perhaps unable to explain it, and will seek more and more to be available for use, rendering himself up in utter selflessness to the inspiration of His Lord. This is effected via the chela's Ego, the force flowing through his astral permanent atom; and it is only possible when the fifth petal is unfolded.
  c.. Third. The conscious cooperation of the chela is necessitated in the third method of over-shadowing. In this case he will (with full knowledge of the laws of his being and nature) surrender himself and step out of his physical body, handing it over for the use of the Great Lord or one of His Masters. This is only possible in the case of a chela who has brought all the three lower bodies into alignment, and necessitates the unfolding of the sixth petal. By an act of conscious will he renders up his body, and stands aside for a specific length of time.
These methods of over-shadowing will be largely the ones used by the Great Lord and His Masters at the end of the century, and for this reason They are sending into incarnation, in every country, disciples who have the opportunity offered them to respond to the need of humanity. Hence the need of training men and women to recognize the higher psychism, and the true inspiration and mediumship, and to do this scientifically. In fifty years time, the need for true psychics and conscious mediums (such as H. P. B., for instance) will be very great [758] if the Master's plans are to be carried to fruition, and the movement must be set on foot in preparation for the coming of Him for Whom all nations wait. In this work many have their share, provided they demonstrate the necessary endurance.

Naturally, the first group will be the largest, for it does not necessitate so much knowledge, but more risk is entailed with them than with the others - the risk of a perversion of the plans, and of disaster to the unit involved. The second group will be less numerous, and the last group will involve only a handful, or two or three in certain countries. In this case, it will be verily true that, through sacrifice, the Son of Man will again tread the highways of men, and His physical incarnation be a fact. Very few will be thus available for His use, as the force He carries requires a peculiarly resilient instrument, but due preparation is being made." (p. 757-758)

- - - - - - - -
Later Alice A. Bailey change her views a bit in "The Externalization of The Hierarchy" published 1947 and 1957:
"Thus a great and new movement is proceeding and a tremendously increased interplay and interaction is taking place. This will go on until A.D. 2025. During the years intervening between now and then very great changes will be seen taking place, and at the great General Assembly of the Hierarchy - held as usual every century - in 2025 the date in all probability will be set for the first stage of the externalization of the Hierarchy. The present cycle (from now until that date) is called technically "The Stage of the Forerunner". It is preparatory in nature, testing in its methods, and intended to be revelatory in its techniques and results. You can see therefore that Chohans, Masters, initiates, world disciples, disciples and aspirants affiliated with the Hierarchy are all at this time passing through a cycle of great activity." (The Externalization of The Hierarchy, p. 530)

- - - - - -

So far the socalled Bailey-world today!
So they are awaiting something in the near future. Something they in a phallic manner call "HIM".





M. Sufilight


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: MKR 
  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 1:56 AM
  Subject: Re: Fw: Theos-World Distortions and diversions?


  I don't have any personal first hand info to classify and come to any
  judgement. What we have been talking about is worldly organizations
  organized and run by ordinary human beings.

  mkr

  On 2/16/08, Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@stofanet.dk> wrote:
  >
  >
  > So the Great White Lodge has no value?
  >
  > M. Sufilight
  >
  > ----- Original Message -----
  > From: MKR
  > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com>
  > Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2008 9:30 PM
  > Subject: Re: Fw: Theos-World Distortions and diversions?
  >
  > It is a free world and each can come to theri own conclusion and stay with
  > it.
  >
  > I am not a scholar; just an ordinary student. No organization can lead
  > anyone for self development. All they can do is do the mechanical stuff.
  > The
  > real work, I think, the individual has to do it himself/herself.
  >
  > mkr
  >
  > On 2/16/08, Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@stofanet.dk<global-theosophy%40stofanet.dk>>
  > wrote:
  > >
  > > I feel absolutely free to disagree with you. "Organisations" as a word
  > > covers a lot of content in its definition. Saying that the great white
  > lodge
  > > cannot help and benefit humanity, and that only J. Krishnamurti can and
  > will
  > > is just about the most wrong conclusion one can get into ones head!
  > >
  > > Do you really think, that Master Morya, H. P. Blavatsky, Damodar
  > > Mavalankar are no more?
  > > Really. How far are you prepared to go to put the Old Lady and Master
  > > Morya down the toilet?
  > >
  > > But, of course I must be misunderstanding you, because you sound like an
  > > intelligent scholar.
  > >
  > > M. Sufilight
  > >
  > > ----- Original Message -----
  > > From: MKR
  > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com><theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com>
  > > Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2008 4:33 PM
  > > Subject: Re: Fw: Theos-World Distortions and diversions?
  > >
  > > Thanks.
  > > I have said this many times.
  > > One of the lessons that one learns from K's disbandment of organizations
  > > is
  > > the need to set ourselves free to inquire as organizations cannot take
  > us
  > > to
  > > enlightenment.
  > >
  > > mkr
  > >
  > > On 2/16/08, Shel Steijl <shelley@sai.co.za <shelley%40sai.co.za><shelley%40sai.co.za>> wrote:
  > > >
  > > > Well said, MKR.
  > > > Shel
  > > >
  > > > ----- Original Message -----
  > > > From: MKR
  > > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com><theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com><theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com>
  > > > Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2008 3:15 PM
  > > > Subject: Re: Theos-World Distortions and diversions?
  > > >
  > > > Any open minded person need to keep certain facts in mind.
  > > >
  > > > Organizations are great when it comes to mechanical tasks such as
  > > > publishing
  > > > and re-publishing and arranging for meetings and gatherings etc. Once
  > it
  > > > goes beyond that, they cannot lead one to self-discovery (which you
  > have
  > > > to
  > > > do it yourself unfettered
  > > > by any preconceived ideas or notions). Once there is an organization,
  > > > there is the bureaucracy and the need for group conformity. Once you
  > > > are in the group for a long time, it is very difficult to think
  > > > outside the box. The other complicating fact is that many
  > > > organizations own a lot of very valuable real estate
  > > > with the ownership comes other headaches and problems that may
  > interfere
  > > > with the distribution of teachings. Spirituality and property and
  > money
  > > do
  > > > not mix well.
  > > >
  > > > It should be recalled that during the early days of TS, there was very
  > > > little money. Even the Adyar estate was purchased by borrowing money
  > > with
  > > > the support of some active theosophists. The lack of money helped the
  > > > founders to concentrate on spreading theosophy than having to worry
  > > about
  > > > managing money.
  > > >
  > > > Looking at some of the past litigation that organizations have got
  > > > themselves into, you will find that property and money are at their
  > root
  > > > and
  > > > in all these litigations, it was the attorneys who came out winners.
  > > >
  > > > Organizations have their place and let us not over emphasize their
  > role
  > > in
  > > > personal development and progress and spirituality.
  > > >
  > > > mkr
  > > >
  > > > On 2/16/08, nhcareyta <nhcareyta@yahoo.com.au<nhcareyta%40yahoo.com.au><nhcareyta%40yahoo.com.au><nhcareyta%40yahoo.com.au>>
  > > > wrote:
  > > > >
  > > > > Dear mkr
  > > > >
  > > > > Thank you for your comment.
  > > > >
  > > > > You write, "If Pablo takes time to read all the
  > > > > past archives of various theos lists, he may
  > > > > come out with a different opinion."
  > > > >
  > > > > I really hope that he might indeed read the past
  > > > > archives and other available literature with a
  > > > > truly open mind. However I suspect this might
  > > > > be difficult for him.
  > > > >
  > > > > As an ex-Adyar Society apologist I can attest
  > > > > to the difficulties faced by one thoroughly
  > > > > absorbed in the organisation and its powerful
  > > > > mindset.
  > > > >
  > > > > I was exposed to some of the issues of Bishop
  > > > > Leadbeater and Dr Besant whilst President of
  > > > > the local Lodge but dismissed it as muckraking.
  > > > > It was only whilst living at the Adyar Society
  > > > > headquarters in India for a few months that I
  > > > > was able to conduct more thorough research. The
  > > > > enormity of their betrayal of "original"
  > > > > Theosophy and the extraordinary and all-important
  > > > > deleterious far-reaching effects of their mindset
  > > > > upon unsuspecting and uninformed members became
  > > > > increasingly apparent, to the extent I could no
  > > > > longer support the organisation. This despite
  > > > > recognising some value in its continuance and
  > > > > the many selfless and hard working people among
  > > > > its membership.
  > > > >
  > > > > This mindset and the pervasive manner in which
  > > > > it works can destroy free thinking which so
  > > > > often leads to blind and stubborn resistance
  > > > > to truth.
  > > > >
  > > > > Regards
  > > > > Nigel
  > > > >
  > > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com><theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com><theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com><theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com>,
  > MKR
  > > > > <mkr777@...> wrote:
  > > > > >
  > > > > > If Pablo takes time to read all the past archives of various theos
  > > > > lists, he
  > > > > > may come out with a different opinion. Archives have a lot of
  > > > > material you
  > > > > > will not find anywhere else. This is due to the fact that the
  > lists
  > > > > are
  > > > > > outside the control of any organization and is totally
  > unmoderated.
  > > > > This is
  > > > > > something that many organizations used to control flow of info to
  > > > > its
  > > > > > adherents and is finding it very hard to come to grip
  > > > > > with. Anyone will also notice that rarely one finds well known
  > > > > leaders
  > > > > > in the hierarchy of organizations participate in any of them, even
  > > > > > though they may lurk to see what is going on.
  > > > > > A paradox in the internet age.
  > > > > >
  > > > > > mkr
  > > > > >
  > > > > >
  > > > > > On 2/15/08, nhcareyta <nhcareyta@...> wrote:
  > > > > > >
  > > > > > > Dear Pablo
  > > > > > >
  > > > > > > Recently you wrote, "In this circle it is fashionable
  > > > > > > to criticize Besant and Leadbeater for whatever
  > > > > > > they did, and most of the times the statements
  > > > > > > are unsupported."
  > > > > > >
  > > > > > > On two occasions I have asked, "Would you kindly
  > > > > > > define your term "unsupported. And apart from
  > > > > > > the current claim by Cass, would you also be
  > > > > > > so kind as to show where "unsupported statements"
  > > > > > > have been made."
  > > > > > >
  > > > > > > Unless you are in process, it appears you are
  > > > > > > disinclined to reply to my questions.
  > > > > > > Given that you have subsequently responded to
  > > > > > > other contributors to this discussion, I will
  > > > > > > assume certain things.
  > > > > > >
  > > > > > > Your word "unsupported" may mean
  > > > > > > not substantiated, meaning groundless and
  > > > > > > baseless.
  > > > > > > If this is correct then you have failed to
  > > > > > > demonstrate this with any examples.
  > > > > > >
  > > > > > > It must therefore be assumed that you have
  > > > > > > little or no evidence to support your claim.
  > > > > > >
  > > > > > > In light of the above, I ask you to reconsider
  > > > > > > your apparently derogatory words to Cass to
  > > > > > > determine whether they might actually refer to
  > > > > > > yourself, "It's interesting to see how our mind
  > > > > > > plays games. "Consistency" is not its main
  > > > > > > feature..."
  > > > > > >
  > > > > > > I still look forward to examples where unsubstantiated
  > > > > > > statements have been made about Bishop Leadbeater
  > > > > > > and Dr Besant in this forum that we may discuss them
  > > > > > > objectively and without bias.
  > > > > > >
  > > > > > > Regards
  > > > > > > Nigel
  > > > > > >
  > > > > > >
  > > > > > >
  > > > > >
  > > > > >
  > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  > > > > >
  > > > >
  > > > >
  > > > >
  > > >
  > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  > > >
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  > > >
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