Theos-Talk Archives (February 2008 Message tt00154)

So the Great White Lodge has no value?



M. Sufilight

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: MKR 
  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2008 9:30 PM
  Subject: Re: Fw: Theos-World Distortions and diversions?


  It is a free world and each can come to theri own conclusion and stay with
  it.

  I am not a scholar; just an ordinary student. No organization can lead
  anyone for self development. All they can do is do the mechanical stuff. The
  real work, I think, the individual has to do it himself/herself.

  mkr

  On 2/16/08, Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@stofanet.dk> wrote:
  >
  > I feel absolutely free to disagree with you. "Organisations" as a word
  > covers a lot of content in its definition. Saying that the great white lodge
  > cannot help and benefit humanity, and that only J. Krishnamurti can and will
  > is just about the most wrong conclusion one can get into ones head!
  >
  > Do you really think, that Master Morya, H. P. Blavatsky, Damodar
  > Mavalankar are no more?
  > Really. How far are you prepared to go to put the Old Lady and Master
  > Morya down the toilet?
  >
  > But, of course I must be misunderstanding you, because you sound like an
  > intelligent scholar.
  >
  > M. Sufilight
  >
  > ----- Original Message -----
  > From: MKR
  > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com>
  > Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2008 4:33 PM
  > Subject: Re: Fw: Theos-World Distortions and diversions?
  >
  > Thanks.
  > I have said this many times.
  > One of the lessons that one learns from K's disbandment of organizations
  > is
  > the need to set ourselves free to inquire as organizations cannot take us
  > to
  > enlightenment.
  >
  > mkr
  >
  > On 2/16/08, Shel Steijl <shelley@sai.co.za <shelley%40sai.co.za>> wrote:
  > >
  > > Well said, MKR.
  > > Shel
  > >
  > > ----- Original Message -----
  > > From: MKR
  > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com><theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com>
  > > Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2008 3:15 PM
  > > Subject: Re: Theos-World Distortions and diversions?
  > >
  > > Any open minded person need to keep certain facts in mind.
  > >
  > > Organizations are great when it comes to mechanical tasks such as
  > > publishing
  > > and re-publishing and arranging for meetings and gatherings etc. Once it
  > > goes beyond that, they cannot lead one to self-discovery (which you have
  > > to
  > > do it yourself unfettered
  > > by any preconceived ideas or notions). Once there is an organization,
  > > there is the bureaucracy and the need for group conformity. Once you
  > > are in the group for a long time, it is very difficult to think
  > > outside the box. The other complicating fact is that many
  > > organizations own a lot of very valuable real estate
  > > with the ownership comes other headaches and problems that may interfere
  > > with the distribution of teachings. Spirituality and property and money
  > do
  > > not mix well.
  > >
  > > It should be recalled that during the early days of TS, there was very
  > > little money. Even the Adyar estate was purchased by borrowing money
  > with
  > > the support of some active theosophists. The lack of money helped the
  > > founders to concentrate on spreading theosophy than having to worry
  > about
  > > managing money.
  > >
  > > Looking at some of the past litigation that organizations have got
  > > themselves into, you will find that property and money are at their root
  > > and
  > > in all these litigations, it was the attorneys who came out winners.
  > >
  > > Organizations have their place and let us not over emphasize their role
  > in
  > > personal development and progress and spirituality.
  > >
  > > mkr
  > >
  > > On 2/16/08, nhcareyta <nhcareyta@yahoo.com.au <nhcareyta%40yahoo.com.au><nhcareyta%40yahoo.com.au>>
  > > wrote:
  > > >
  > > > Dear mkr
  > > >
  > > > Thank you for your comment.
  > > >
  > > > You write, "If Pablo takes time to read all the
  > > > past archives of various theos lists, he may
  > > > come out with a different opinion."
  > > >
  > > > I really hope that he might indeed read the past
  > > > archives and other available literature with a
  > > > truly open mind. However I suspect this might
  > > > be difficult for him.
  > > >
  > > > As an ex-Adyar Society apologist I can attest
  > > > to the difficulties faced by one thoroughly
  > > > absorbed in the organisation and its powerful
  > > > mindset.
  > > >
  > > > I was exposed to some of the issues of Bishop
  > > > Leadbeater and Dr Besant whilst President of
  > > > the local Lodge but dismissed it as muckraking.
  > > > It was only whilst living at the Adyar Society
  > > > headquarters in India for a few months that I
  > > > was able to conduct more thorough research. The
  > > > enormity of their betrayal of "original"
  > > > Theosophy and the extraordinary and all-important
  > > > deleterious far-reaching effects of their mindset
  > > > upon unsuspecting and uninformed members became
  > > > increasingly apparent, to the extent I could no
  > > > longer support the organisation. This despite
  > > > recognising some value in its continuance and
  > > > the many selfless and hard working people among
  > > > its membership.
  > > >
  > > > This mindset and the pervasive manner in which
  > > > it works can destroy free thinking which so
  > > > often leads to blind and stubborn resistance
  > > > to truth.
  > > >
  > > > Regards
  > > > Nigel
  > > >
  > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com><theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com><theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com>, MKR
  > > > <mkr777@...> wrote:
  > > > >
  > > > > If Pablo takes time to read all the past archives of various theos
  > > > lists, he
  > > > > may come out with a different opinion. Archives have a lot of
  > > > material you
  > > > > will not find anywhere else. This is due to the fact that the lists
  > > > are
  > > > > outside the control of any organization and is totally unmoderated.
  > > > This is
  > > > > something that many organizations used to control flow of info to
  > > > its
  > > > > adherents and is finding it very hard to come to grip
  > > > > with. Anyone will also notice that rarely one finds well known
  > > > leaders
  > > > > in the hierarchy of organizations participate in any of them, even
  > > > > though they may lurk to see what is going on.
  > > > > A paradox in the internet age.
  > > > >
  > > > > mkr
  > > > >
  > > > >
  > > > > On 2/15/08, nhcareyta <nhcareyta@...> wrote:
  > > > > >
  > > > > > Dear Pablo
  > > > > >
  > > > > > Recently you wrote, "In this circle it is fashionable
  > > > > > to criticize Besant and Leadbeater for whatever
  > > > > > they did, and most of the times the statements
  > > > > > are unsupported."
  > > > > >
  > > > > > On two occasions I have asked, "Would you kindly
  > > > > > define your term "unsupported. And apart from
  > > > > > the current claim by Cass, would you also be
  > > > > > so kind as to show where "unsupported statements"
  > > > > > have been made."
  > > > > >
  > > > > > Unless you are in process, it appears you are
  > > > > > disinclined to reply to my questions.
  > > > > > Given that you have subsequently responded to
  > > > > > other contributors to this discussion, I will
  > > > > > assume certain things.
  > > > > >
  > > > > > Your word "unsupported" may mean
  > > > > > not substantiated, meaning groundless and
  > > > > > baseless.
  > > > > > If this is correct then you have failed to
  > > > > > demonstrate this with any examples.
  > > > > >
  > > > > > It must therefore be assumed that you have
  > > > > > little or no evidence to support your claim.
  > > > > >
  > > > > > In light of the above, I ask you to reconsider
  > > > > > your apparently derogatory words to Cass to
  > > > > > determine whether they might actually refer to
  > > > > > yourself, "It's interesting to see how our mind
  > > > > > plays games. "Consistency" is not its main
  > > > > > feature..."
  > > > > >
  > > > > > I still look forward to examples where unsubstantiated
  > > > > > statements have been made about Bishop Leadbeater
  > > > > > and Dr Besant in this forum that we may discuss them
  > > > > > objectively and without bias.
  > > > > >
  > > > > > Regards
  > > > > > Nigel
  > > > > >
  > > > > >
  > > > > >
  > > > >
  > > > >
  > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  > > > >
  > > >
  > > >
  > > >
  > >
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  > >
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