Theos-Talk Archives (February 2008 Message tt00162)

I don't have any personal first hand info to classify and come to any
judgement. What we have been talking about is worldly organizations
organized and run by ordinary human beings.

mkr


On 2/16/08, Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@stofanet.dk> wrote:
>
>
> So the Great White Lodge has no value?
>
> M. Sufilight
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: MKR
> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2008 9:30 PM
> Subject: Re: Fw: Theos-World Distortions and diversions?
>
> It is a free world and each can come to theri own conclusion and stay with
> it.
>
> I am not a scholar; just an ordinary student. No organization can lead
> anyone for self development. All they can do is do the mechanical stuff.
> The
> real work, I think, the individual has to do it himself/herself.
>
> mkr
>
> On 2/16/08, Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@stofanet.dk<global-theosophy%40stofanet.dk>>
> wrote:
> >
> > I feel absolutely free to disagree with you. "Organisations" as a word
> > covers a lot of content in its definition. Saying that the great white
> lodge
> > cannot help and benefit humanity, and that only J. Krishnamurti can and
> will
> > is just about the most wrong conclusion one can get into ones head!
> >
> > Do you really think, that Master Morya, H. P. Blavatsky, Damodar
> > Mavalankar are no more?
> > Really. How far are you prepared to go to put the Old Lady and Master
> > Morya down the toilet?
> >
> > But, of course I must be misunderstanding you, because you sound like an
> > intelligent scholar.
> >
> > M. Sufilight
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: MKR
> > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com><theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2008 4:33 PM
> > Subject: Re: Fw: Theos-World Distortions and diversions?
> >
> > Thanks.
> > I have said this many times.
> > One of the lessons that one learns from K's disbandment of organizations
> > is
> > the need to set ourselves free to inquire as organizations cannot take
> us
> > to
> > enlightenment.
> >
> > mkr
> >
> > On 2/16/08, Shel Steijl <shelley@sai.co.za <shelley%40sai.co.za><shelley%40sai.co.za>> wrote:
> > >
> > > Well said, MKR.
> > > Shel
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: MKR
> > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com><theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com><theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2008 3:15 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Theos-World Distortions and diversions?
> > >
> > > Any open minded person need to keep certain facts in mind.
> > >
> > > Organizations are great when it comes to mechanical tasks such as
> > > publishing
> > > and re-publishing and arranging for meetings and gatherings etc. Once
> it
> > > goes beyond that, they cannot lead one to self-discovery (which you
> have
> > > to
> > > do it yourself unfettered
> > > by any preconceived ideas or notions). Once there is an organization,
> > > there is the bureaucracy and the need for group conformity. Once you
> > > are in the group for a long time, it is very difficult to think
> > > outside the box. The other complicating fact is that many
> > > organizations own a lot of very valuable real estate
> > > with the ownership comes other headaches and problems that may
> interfere
> > > with the distribution of teachings. Spirituality and property and
> money
> > do
> > > not mix well.
> > >
> > > It should be recalled that during the early days of TS, there was very
> > > little money. Even the Adyar estate was purchased by borrowing money
> > with
> > > the support of some active theosophists. The lack of money helped the
> > > founders to concentrate on spreading theosophy than having to worry
> > about
> > > managing money.
> > >
> > > Looking at some of the past litigation that organizations have got
> > > themselves into, you will find that property and money are at their
> root
> > > and
> > > in all these litigations, it was the attorneys who came out winners.
> > >
> > > Organizations have their place and let us not over emphasize their
> role
> > in
> > > personal development and progress and spirituality.
> > >
> > > mkr
> > >
> > > On 2/16/08, nhcareyta <nhcareyta@yahoo.com.au<nhcareyta%40yahoo.com.au><nhcareyta%40yahoo.com.au><nhcareyta%40yahoo.com.au>>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Dear mkr
> > > >
> > > > Thank you for your comment.
> > > >
> > > > You write, "If Pablo takes time to read all the
> > > > past archives of various theos lists, he may
> > > > come out with a different opinion."
> > > >
> > > > I really hope that he might indeed read the past
> > > > archives and other available literature with a
> > > > truly open mind. However I suspect this might
> > > > be difficult for him.
> > > >
> > > > As an ex-Adyar Society apologist I can attest
> > > > to the difficulties faced by one thoroughly
> > > > absorbed in the organisation and its powerful
> > > > mindset.
> > > >
> > > > I was exposed to some of the issues of Bishop
> > > > Leadbeater and Dr Besant whilst President of
> > > > the local Lodge but dismissed it as muckraking.
> > > > It was only whilst living at the Adyar Society
> > > > headquarters in India for a few months that I
> > > > was able to conduct more thorough research. The
> > > > enormity of their betrayal of "original"
> > > > Theosophy and the extraordinary and all-important
> > > > deleterious far-reaching effects of their mindset
> > > > upon unsuspecting and uninformed members became
> > > > increasingly apparent, to the extent I could no
> > > > longer support the organisation. This despite
> > > > recognising some value in its continuance and
> > > > the many selfless and hard working people among
> > > > its membership.
> > > >
> > > > This mindset and the pervasive manner in which
> > > > it works can destroy free thinking which so
> > > > often leads to blind and stubborn resistance
> > > > to truth.
> > > >
> > > > Regards
> > > > Nigel
> > > >
> > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com><theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com><theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com><theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com>,
> MKR
> > > > <mkr777@...> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > If Pablo takes time to read all the past archives of various theos
> > > > lists, he
> > > > > may come out with a different opinion. Archives have a lot of
> > > > material you
> > > > > will not find anywhere else. This is due to the fact that the
> lists
> > > > are
> > > > > outside the control of any organization and is totally
> unmoderated.
> > > > This is
> > > > > something that many organizations used to control flow of info to
> > > > its
> > > > > adherents and is finding it very hard to come to grip
> > > > > with. Anyone will also notice that rarely one finds well known
> > > > leaders
> > > > > in the hierarchy of organizations participate in any of them, even
> > > > > though they may lurk to see what is going on.
> > > > > A paradox in the internet age.
> > > > >
> > > > > mkr
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 2/15/08, nhcareyta <nhcareyta@...> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Dear Pablo
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Recently you wrote, "In this circle it is fashionable
> > > > > > to criticize Besant and Leadbeater for whatever
> > > > > > they did, and most of the times the statements
> > > > > > are unsupported."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On two occasions I have asked, "Would you kindly
> > > > > > define your term "unsupported. And apart from
> > > > > > the current claim by Cass, would you also be
> > > > > > so kind as to show where "unsupported statements"
> > > > > > have been made."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Unless you are in process, it appears you are
> > > > > > disinclined to reply to my questions.
> > > > > > Given that you have subsequently responded to
> > > > > > other contributors to this discussion, I will
> > > > > > assume certain things.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Your word "unsupported" may mean
> > > > > > not substantiated, meaning groundless and
> > > > > > baseless.
> > > > > > If this is correct then you have failed to
> > > > > > demonstrate this with any examples.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It must therefore be assumed that you have
> > > > > > little or no evidence to support your claim.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In light of the above, I ask you to reconsider
> > > > > > your apparently derogatory words to Cass to
> > > > > > determine whether they might actually refer to
> > > > > > yourself, "It's interesting to see how our mind
> > > > > > plays games. "Consistency" is not its main
> > > > > > feature..."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I still look forward to examples where unsubstantiated
> > > > > > statements have been made about Bishop Leadbeater
> > > > > > and Dr Besant in this forum that we may discuss them
> > > > > > objectively and without bias.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Regards
> > > > > > Nigel
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
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> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
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> > >
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------
> > >
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