Theos-Talk Archives (November 2006 Message tt00028)

The major LCC-influence here in Australia, and that is a big one, 
come from Pedro Oliviera (president of the Indo-Pacific Federation, 
and Educational Coordinator at the Sydney HQ) and his wife, Linda 
who is national president of the Australian Section. Mr. Oliviera is 
very much a leadbeaterian (as one easy can se from his writings 
in "Theosophy in Australia"), and an active member (if not a priest) 
in the LCC in Sydney. I have hade some struggles with him, am I will 
post my last major criticism on an article by him here. Even if you 
can't se his article, I think you can imagine. 

I asked Mary Anderson (International General Secretary in Adyar) in 
a mail last month, about the relation Adyar TS and LCC. Her answer 
was: 

"Concerning the LCC, it is up to the Lodge in question to decide 
what to do. Conditions are different in different places."

There is no official connection between Adyar TS and LCC (of any 
branch) what so ever, any more. Then this happened, I don't know for 
sure, but it was during Radha's time.

How it is in the US, and the Netherlands, I don't know for sure, so 
it better to don't say anything. But in Scandinavia, their influents 
over the Adyar TS are very limited, or close to cero. 

The Eastern Star Order of Co-masonry (so called "theosophical 
masonry" or leadbeterian, headed by Algeo) is very small outside the 
US. And if a real co-mason of the "Le Droit Humain" has any 
connection with this group, they will be anathemased at once. The 
same will happen to all other masons, of the London or 
Paris "divisions", too. The only two Eastern Star lodge, outside the 
US I have heard of is in London and Amsterdam, but I think there 
must be one in Adyar to.

Carl

--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "carlosaveline" 
<carlosaveline@...> wrote:
>
> Carl,
> 
> Thanks. I did not know that. 
> 
> In Brazil, the LCC priests have an influence on the Adyar TS and 
one of them presides it in the purest brand of Leadbeater's and 
Wedgwood's style. 
> 
> I understand LCC is also influential in the USA,  UK, Australia,  
and the Netherlands. They are probably tolerated in Adyar.  Tell me 
if I am wrong. 
> 
> They are usually also  involved in the so-called "theosophical 
masonry", created by John Algeo with support from Ms. Radha Burnier, 
as a split of 
> "Le Droit Humain".   
> 
> 
> Carlos.  
> 
> 
> 
> De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> 
> Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> 
> Cópia:
> 
> Data:Wed, 01 Nov 2006 07:22:43 -0000
> 
> Assunto:[Spam] Theos-World Re: Fairness in presentation, Liberal 
Cath. Church
> 
> > One most has to be clear of that there exist several different 
LCC-
> > groups. Some of those are "friendly" whit the Adyar-society, and 
> > some are not. They are not always even friendly whit each other.
> > 
> > Carl
> > 
> > The following are from Wikipedia.
> > 
> > About the Schisms in LCC
> > 
> > 
> > First Schism
> > 
> > In 1941, there was a schism in the Liberal Catholic Church in 
the 
> > United States, surrounding a controversy involving Bishop 
Charles 
> > Hampton, who, while he was himself a theosophist, wished to keep 
> > adherence to theosophical tenets optional for the clergy. This 
was 
> > in keeping with what was taken to be the original intent of the 
> > church's founders, who, although they were theosophists, wanted 
the 
> > church to remain primarily Catholic and to be open to everyone. 
> > While some branches of the church place more esoteric, lifestyle 
and 
> > dietary restrictions on the clergy, the church as a whole did 
not, 
> > and still does not, require membership in the Theosophical 
Society.
> > 
> > Legal battle
> > 
> > The controversy surrounding Bishop Hampton led to a legal battle 
in 
> > the United States which eventually split into two different 
> > divsions, both of which claimed to be the Liberal Catholic 
Church. 
> > Frank W. Pigott, the church's 3rd Presiding Bishop in England, 
who 
> > held to a more theosophical ideal for the church, removed 
Hampton 
> > and then ordered the confiscation of certain church property at 
the 
> > Regionary headquarters in California and forced the resignation 
of 
> > those clergy under Hampton who refused to support his new 
episcopal 
> > replacement. At the time, the majority of Liberal Catholics in 
the 
> > United States supported Hampton and saw his removal from the 
office 
> > of Regionary and the other subsequent precedings as a breach of 
> > canon law and a violation of some of the laws of California 
under 
> > which the church had been incorporated in America. These clergy 
> > continued on their own and won the right to be called the 
Liberal 
> > Catholic Church in the U.S. (while being called the Liberal 
Catholic 
> > Church International in the rest of the world). Those who 
followed 
> > Bishop Pigott in England became known in America as The Liberal 
> > Catholic Church, Province of the United States of America. Both 
> > divisions have similar structures of government and 
administration.
> > After Frank W. Pigott retired as the Presiding Bishop, and after 
> > attempts at a reconcilation, some of the clergy in the LCCI 
returned 
> > to The Liberal Catholic Church, Province of the United States of 
> > America. Bishop Hampton died before the litigation was settled. 
> > While some clergy wish for more cooperation between the two 
> > Divisions, they still exist independently.
> > 
> > Second Schism?
> > 
> > In 2003 there was another schism in the Liberal Catholic Church 
> > worldwide. The main issues in this split was the ordination of 
women 
> > to the Holy Orders. Again, as in the case of the first schism, 
it is 
> > difficult to say who continues the tradition and who is the 
> > schismatic. What is certain is that some parishes in the Dutch, 
> > Belgium and Canada provinces who represented the "liberal" wing 
of 
> > the Liberal Catholic Church worldwide broke away from 
the "mother 
> > church" still using the name The Liberal Catholic Church even 
though 
> > they left the church. The "mother church" opened "The Order of 
Our 
> > Lady" for women seeking ordinations in 2000. Since both groups 
call 
> > themselves The Liberal Catholic Church, distinguishing between 
the 
> > two can be confusing. Significantly, in 2004 Regionary Bishop 
for 
> > Sweden, Sten-Bertil Jakobson declared for the right of women to 
be 
> > ordained, and he joined the newly formed movement in the 
Netherlands 
> > and Belgium. He was followed by the Liberal Catholic 
Congregations 
> > in Austria, Demnark, Germany, Cameroon, and both Congos. Several 
new 
> > congregations have been formed in England and the USA. The 
> > membership of this movement is estimated to exceed 50,000 
members.
> > At their General Episcopal Synod in 2004, the Liberal Catholic 
> > Church International also began the ordination of women up to 
and 
> > including the Order of Bishop.
> > In 1982 Ernest W. Jackson had resigned from Province of Canada 
and 
> > started a group called The Liberal Catholic Church - Theosophia 
> > Synod. The group was always very small, but on May 15, 2005, 
under 
> > the leadership of John Schwarz III, they joined with the 
progressive 
> > Dutch, Belgium and Canada branch of the LCC. The Theosophia 
Synod no 
> > longer maintains a separate existence.
> > 
> > Differences of the Divisions
> > 
> > The General Episcopal Synod of The Liberal Catholic Church 
worldwide 
> > requires its clergy to believe in such theosophical tenets as 
> > reincarnation and the ascended masters. It encourages its 
priests 
> > and its bishops to have a vegetarian diet and to refrain from 
using 
> > tobacco as well as alcohol. Significantly it also continues to 
> > require deacons, priests and bishops to be male. In this regard, 
The 
> > Liberal Catholic Church follows the same practise as the Roman 
> > Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Churches. The Liberal 
> > Catholic Church International does not as a group require any 
belief 
> > in theosophical tenets, while it continues to accept them if 
they 
> > are the personal choice of the individual. Since 2004, the 
Liberal 
> > Catholic Church International opens the ordination of women to 
all 
> > Holy Orders up to and including bishop. The Liberal Catholic 
Church 
> > (Dutch, Belgium, Britain and Canada), retains the emphasis on 
the 
> > theosophical tenets, but practices ordination of women to Holy 
> > Orders and requires its clergy to hold the ordination of women 
as a 
> > matter of church belief
> > 
> > 
> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Gary Barnhart" 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > The Church of St. Francis ,The Liberal Catholic Church in 
Villa 
> > Park, Illinois, USA is about 5 miles or 7km from Wheaton, 
> > Illinois,USA where the headquarters of 
> > > the Theosophical Society In America {with International 
> > Headquarters Adyar, (Madras), India] is located. 
> > > 
> > > It is worthwhile to look at the Links on the church's web site 
> > http://www.liberalcatholic.com/ as they link to the Adyar 
website 
> > of http://www.anandgholap.net writings of Besant and Leadbeater. 
> > Also the link to Besant's "THE ANCIENT WRITINGS" the first 
> > paragraph in the Preface says:
> > > This book is intended to place in the hands of the general 
reader 
> > an epitome of theosophical teachings, sufficiently plain to 
serve 
> > the elementary student, and sufficiently full to lay a sound 
> > foundation for further knowledge. It is hoped that it may serve 
as 
> > an introduction to the profounder works of H.P.Blavatsky, and be 
a 
> > convenient steppingstone to their study.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > One may also note that the church website has a link to Quest 
> > Books, the publishing arm of The T.S. in America w/ headquarters 
> > Adaro. 
> > > 
> > > Now, is there any question remaining of the intertwining of 
The 
> > Liberal Catholic Church and The T.S. In America-Adyar ???
> > > 
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
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