Theos-Talk Archives (November 2006 Message tt00035)

Carl,

Thanks a lot. 

Pedro Oliveira used to be an LCC priest and should be one now, too.

There must be a few lodges of "theosophical masonry" in  Brazil, though smaller than the local federation of "Le Droit Humain", which kept most people when it separated from the Adyar Movement. 

By the way, Tamas seem to run much of the theosophical movement by now, and some Rajas quality might help it to 'move' itself a little. 


Regards,  Carlos. 



 
De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com

Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com

Cópia:

Data:Wed, 01 Nov 2006 15:03:07 -0000

Assunto:[Spam] Theos-World Re: On Liberal Cath. Church

> The major LCC-influence here in Australia, and that is a big one, 
> come from Pedro Oliviera (president of the Indo-Pacific Federation, 
> and Educational Coordinator at the Sydney HQ) and his wife, Linda 
> who is national president of the Australian Section. Mr. Oliviera is 
> very much a leadbeaterian (as one easy can se from his writings 
> in "Theosophy in Australia"), and an active member (if not a priest) 
> in the LCC in Sydney. I have hade some struggles with him, am I will 
> post my last major criticism on an article by him here. Even if you 
> can't se his article, I think you can imagine. 
> 
> I asked Mary Anderson (International General Secretary in Adyar) in 
> a mail last month, about the relation Adyar TS and LCC. Her answer 
> was: 
> 
> "Concerning the LCC, it is up to the Lodge in question to decide 
> what to do. Conditions are different in different places."
> 
> There is no official connection between Adyar TS and LCC (of any 
> branch) what so ever, any more. Then this happened, I don't know for 
> sure, but it was during Radha's time.
> 
> How it is in the US, and the Netherlands, I don't know for sure, so 
> it better to don't say anything. But in Scandinavia, their influents 
> over the Adyar TS are very limited, or close to cero. 
> 
> The Eastern Star Order of Co-masonry (so called "theosophical 
> masonry" or leadbeterian, headed by Algeo) is very small outside the 
> US. And if a real co-mason of the "Le Droit Humain" has any 
> connection with this group, they will be anathemased at once. The 
> same will happen to all other masons, of the London or 
> Paris "divisions", too. The only two Eastern Star lodge, outside the 
> US I have heard of is in London and Amsterdam, but I think there 
> must be one in Adyar to.
> 
> Carl
> 
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "carlosaveline" 
> wrote:
> >
> > Carl,
> > 
> > Thanks. I did not know that. 
> > 
> > In Brazil, the LCC priests have an influence on the Adyar TS and 
> one of them presides it in the purest brand of Leadbeater's and 
> Wedgwood's style. 
> > 
> > I understand LCC is also influential in the USA, UK, Australia, 
> and the Netherlands. They are probably tolerated in Adyar. Tell me 
> if I am wrong. 
> > 
> > They are usually also involved in the so-called "theosophical 
> masonry", created by John Algeo with support from Ms. Radha Burnier, 
> as a split of 
> > "Le Droit Humain". 
> > 
> > 
> > Carlos. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > 
> > Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > 
> > Cópia:
> > 
> > Data:Wed, 01 Nov 2006 07:22:43 -0000
> > 
> > Assunto:[Spam] Theos-World Re: Fairness in presentation, Liberal 
> Cath. Church
> > 
> > > One most has to be clear of that there exist several different 
> LCC-
> > > groups. Some of those are "friendly" whit the Adyar-society, and 
> > > some are not. They are not always even friendly whit each other.
> > > 
> > > Carl
> > > 
> > > The following are from Wikipedia.
> > > 
> > > About the Schisms in LCC
> > > 
> > > 
> > > First Schism
> > > 
> > > In 1941, there was a schism in the Liberal Catholic Church in 
> the 
> > > United States, surrounding a controversy involving Bishop 
> Charles 
> > > Hampton, who, while he was himself a theosophist, wished to keep 
> > > adherence to theosophical tenets optional for the clergy. This 
> was 
> > > in keeping with what was taken to be the original intent of the 
> > > church's founders, who, although they were theosophists, wanted 
> the 
> > > church to remain primarily Catholic and to be open to everyone. 
> > > While some branches of the church place more esoteric, lifestyle 
> and 
> > > dietary restrictions on the clergy, the church as a whole did 
> not, 
> > > and still does not, require membership in the Theosophical 
> Society.
> > > 
> > > Legal battle
> > > 
> > > The controversy surrounding Bishop Hampton led to a legal battle 
> in 
> > > the United States which eventually split into two different 
> > > divsions, both of which claimed to be the Liberal Catholic 
> Church. 
> > > Frank W. Pigott, the church's 3rd Presiding Bishop in England, 
> who 
> > > held to a more theosophical ideal for the church, removed 
> Hampton 
> > > and then ordered the confiscation of certain church property at 
> the 
> > > Regionary headquarters in California and forced the resignation 
> of 
> > > those clergy under Hampton who refused to support his new 
> episcopal 
> > > replacement. At the time, the majority of Liberal Catholics in 
> the 
> > > United States supported Hampton and saw his removal from the 
> office 
> > > of Regionary and the other subsequent precedings as a breach of 
> > > canon law and a violation of some of the laws of California 
> under 
> > > which the church had been incorporated in America. These clergy 
> > > continued on their own and won the right to be called the 
> Liberal 
> > > Catholic Church in the U.S. (while being called the Liberal 
> Catholic 
> > > Church International in the rest of the world). Those who 
> followed 
> > > Bishop Pigott in England became known in America as The Liberal 
> > > Catholic Church, Province of the United States of America. Both 
> > > divisions have similar structures of government and 
> administration.
> > > After Frank W. Pigott retired as the Presiding Bishop, and after 
> > > attempts at a reconcilation, some of the clergy in the LCCI 
> returned 
> > > to The Liberal Catholic Church, Province of the United States of 
> > > America. Bishop Hampton died before the litigation was settled. 
> > > While some clergy wish for more cooperation between the two 
> > > Divisions, they still exist independently.
> > > 
> > > Second Schism?
> > > 
> > > In 2003 there was another schism in the Liberal Catholic Church 
> > > worldwide. The main issues in this split was the ordination of 
> women 
> > > to the Holy Orders. Again, as in the case of the first schism, 
> it is 
> > > difficult to say who continues the tradition and who is the 
> > > schismatic. What is certain is that some parishes in the Dutch, 
> > > Belgium and Canada provinces who represented the "liberal" wing 
> of 
> > > the Liberal Catholic Church worldwide broke away from 
> the "mother 
> > > church" still using the name The Liberal Catholic Church even 
> though 
> > > they left the church. The "mother church" opened "The Order of 
> Our 
> > > Lady" for women seeking ordinations in 2000. Since both groups 
> call 
> > > themselves The Liberal Catholic Church, distinguishing between 
> the 
> > > two can be confusing. Significantly, in 2004 Regionary Bishop 
> for 
> > > Sweden, Sten-Bertil Jakobson declared for the right of women to 
> be 
> > > ordained, and he joined the newly formed movement in the 
> Netherlands 
> > > and Belgium. He was followed by the Liberal Catholic 
> Congregations 
> > > in Austria, Demnark, Germany, Cameroon, and both Congos. Several 
> new 
> > > congregations have been formed in England and the USA. The 
> > > membership of this movement is estimated to exceed 50,000 
> members.
> > > At their General Episcopal Synod in 2004, the Liberal Catholic 
> > > Church International also began the ordination of women up to 
> and 
> > > including the Order of Bishop.
> > > In 1982 Ernest W. Jackson had resigned from Province of Canada 
> and 
> > > started a group called The Liberal Catholic Church - Theosophia 
> > > Synod. The group was always very small, but on May 15, 2005, 
> under 
> > > the leadership of John Schwarz III, they joined with the 
> progressive 
> > > Dutch, Belgium and Canada branch of the LCC. The Theosophia 
> Synod no 
> > > longer maintains a separate existence.
> > > 
> > > Differences of the Divisions
> > > 
> > > The General Episcopal Synod of The Liberal Catholic Church 
> worldwide 
> > > requires its clergy to believe in such theosophical tenets as 
> > > reincarnation and the ascended masters. It encourages its 
> priests 
> > > and its bishops to have a vegetarian diet and to refrain from 
> using 
> > > tobacco as well as alcohol. Significantly it also continues to 
> > > require deacons, priests and bishops to be male. In this regard, 
> The 
> > > Liberal Catholic Church follows the same practise as the Roman 
> > > Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Churches. The Liberal 
> > > Catholic Church International does not as a group require any 
> belief 
> > > in theosophical tenets, while it continues to accept them if 
> they 
> > > are the personal choice of the individual. Since 2004, the 
> Liberal 
> > > Catholic Church International opens the ordination of women to 
> all 
> > > Holy Orders up to and including bishop. The Liberal Catholic 
> Church 
> > > (Dutch, Belgium, Britain and Canada), retains the emphasis on 
> the 
> > > theosophical tenets, but practices ordination of women to Holy 
> > > Orders and requires its clergy to hold the ordination of women 
> as a 
> > > matter of church belief
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Gary Barnhart" 
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > The Church of St. Francis ,The Liberal Catholic Church in 
> Villa 
> > > Park, Illinois, USA is about 5 miles or 7km from Wheaton, 
> > > Illinois,USA where the headquarters of 
> > > > the Theosophical Society In America {with International 
> > > Headquarters Adyar, (Madras), India] is located. 
> > > > 
> > > > It is worthwhile to look at the Links on the church's web site 
> > > http://www.liberalcatholic.com/ as they link to the Adyar 
> website 
> > > of http://www.anandgholap.net writings of Besant and Leadbeater. 
> > > Also the link to Besant's "THE ANCIENT WRITINGS" the first 
> > > paragraph in the Preface says:
> > > > This book is intended to place in the hands of the general 
> reader 
> > > an epitome of theosophical teachings, sufficiently plain to 
> serve 
> > > the elementary student, and sufficiently full to lay a sound 
> > > foundation for further knowledge. It is hoped that it may serve 
> as 
> > > an introduction to the profounder works of H.P.Blavatsky, and be 
> a 
> > > convenient steppingstone to their study.
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > One may also note that the church website has a link to Quest 
> > > Books, the publishing arm of The T.S. in America w/ headquarters 
> > > Adaro. 
> > > > 
> > > > Now, is there any question remaining of the intertwining of 
> The 
> > > Liberal Catholic Church and The T.S. In America-Adyar ???
> > > > 
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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