Theos-Talk Archives (April 2006 Message tt00177)

You wrote:

> Thanks, excuse my brevity and see notes below in text.  If not 
clear then
> ask again.

Okay, thanks.
 
> Let me say at the outset that THEOSOPHY, to me, is NOT one of the 
religions,
> philosophies or sciences, but, as HPB presents it, it is a 
synopsis (or
> précis) of the wisdom available to all great Initiates [Mahatmas] 
as also to
> the ATMA-BUDDHIC PRINCIPLE in each one of us, as a MONAD . We 
instinctively
> know when something is not TRUE  -- conscience ? ]

Must one be a Theosophist to be a mahatma?

> I consider it futile to try to adjust theosophical terminology to 
that used
> in current Western scientific debate.  [A library would be 
needed.  To
> abbreviate the effort I suggest learning a new language:  
THEOSOPHY --  and
> its special meanings.  This will be found to include a review of 
history as
> we know it and a number of adjustments will have to be made to 
that. Above
> all, we need to be carefully analyzing the concepts and processes 
of
> self-discipline offered on the `Path" of self-purification, for 
their
> fairness and accuracy.

I'm still learning Theosophical terms.  It is all new to me.

> This may appear arbitrary.  But if we wish to learn about 
THEOSOPHY first we
> have to learn exactly what THEOSOPHY teaches.

Of which I am largely ignorant.

> Then we can compare those statements [facts to its deeper 
students] with
> modern science and its scholarly debates in many directions. 

Okay.

> First we may observe some similarities.
> 
>  
> 
> 1          "GOD," as concept, regardless of any credal "Name" is 
employed to
> indicate the prevalence of the primal original and unchanging 
PRINCIPLE of
> LIFE in SPACE, that pervades the whole of manifestation:
> 
>  
> 
>              "Since time began, and before there was beginning -- 
> 
>                         All things march to its drumming." 

I'm agnostic regarding the existence of a cosmological supergod 
(omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent), yet I believe that the 
universe itself is much larger than the meager god concepts commonly 
entertained by humanity.

> 2          DURATION includes all cycles as divisions of TIME, 
whether
> manifested (manvantara) or non-manifested (pralaya), whether 
objective or
> subjective.

I don't believe that durations of time exist in the context of 
eternity.  Eternity is above time, and therefore above durations.

> 3          A single LAW [KARMA] of honesty and justice prevails, 
unbroken
> and uniformly.  All beings are its subjects.  No being has the 
power to
> alter the EFFECTS which earlier CAUSES have set.  Its ideal 
is "duty" --
> DHARMA.

I believe in karma, but not reincarnation.

> 4          CONSCIOUSNESS      Is the ability to perceive along 
with any
> other being, on any other plane of intelligent action or 
perception.

I fully agree.  And there are an endless number of dimensional 
planes.

> 5          All forms are temporary projections of an INTELLIGENCE 
which is
> not entirely subject to experience (thought, act, feeling) in any 
plane.
> The reincarnation of "Intelligence" is the 'Path' of the human 
monadic
> progress at present.

Which 'intelligence' are you referring to?

> 6          The "ATOM" (as a basic unit of matter) is 
indestructible,
> eternally (and cyclically) active in the framework of its own (as 
well as of
> the universal) program.

What about when atoms are split?  That's called an 'atom bomb'.

> 7          The "GOAL" of all  individual/personal experience  
through
> 'evolution,' is a perfect knowledge of LAW and of the power of 
choice.  It
> also recognizes the superior force of thought to psychism (also 
defined as
> sentiment and emotion -- likes and dislikes).

A perfect knowledge of law?  What law?  Are you referring to the law 
of karma?

> Here are what seems to me to be basic concepts found in all.
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> 1.         GOD   --  DEITY  --  UNIVERSE  --  NATURE  --  SPACE  
(to me:
> synonyms)
> 
> They are ALL inclusive, whether objective (in material tangible 
forms) or
> "subjective" (in ideas, thoughts, fancies, personal concepts and 
preferences
> or likes, etc., )

Okay.

> 2.         MONADS  [ATMA (Spirit)  and BUDDHI (Wisdom -- knowledge 
of facts,
> laws and karma of NATURE ) eternally conjoined. The opposing pole 
is the
> material "atom." [Itself, a definite and fixed, 'personal' focus 
of energy.]

Yes, I believe that it's all connected together.

> 3.         Therefore, as the WHOLE UNIVERSE consists of 
these "spiritually
> wise Monads,"  each is as ancient as any other (an 
ancient "brotherhood" in
> fact).  To each, a "material" atomic counterpart is fixed.

Are you referring to reincarnate forms?

> 4.         Their "WISDOM [Buddhi]," includes for final reference, 
an exact
> and actual pictorial HISTORY of all events over vast periods of 
both
> manifested and non-manifested TIME [manvantaras and pralayas 
impacted in
> Akasa.  Thereon, the 'Path" (choices made by each free-willed 
independent
> Monad) that lead to the present exactitude of effects and 
circumstances) of
> each Monad can be retraced.].

Retraced?  To where?  How?

>             KARMA:   In this all-inclusive LAW, their (individual; 
and
> collective) 'WISDOM' may also be grasped as KARMA.  
> 
>  
> 
>             That implies a knowledge of all causal factors 
(choices made by
> each free-willed independent Monad) that lead to the present 
exactitude of
> effects and circumstances  All Monads of whatever level of 
experience embody
> and include these factors. There can be no concealment, evasion, or
> "influencing" any Karmic factor anywhere, or at any time -- from 
the vast
> past up to now.

Okay.  I believe that everything in the universe balances itself 
out.  We just fail to see the big picture sometimes, so the world 
commonly appears very imbalanced to us.

> 5.         They [Monads] entirely pervade "SPACE" -- they are 
SPACE, and
> have always been there and will continue to be there.

So monads never leave space to walk reincarnately?  Are 
reincarnations just projections of supernatural beings that never 
leave the supernatural realm to begin with?

> 6.         The Monad serves as a "connection" between the 
uncountable
> continually changing "personal forms" of matter in which 
INTELLIGENCE is
> refining itself by self-effort.

Again, which 'intelligence' are you referring to?

> 7.         "EVOLUTION" is defined for Monads in the "human stage," 
as a
> moral struggle -- it is selfishness (of the personal emotional 
inclinations)
> vs. universality (or the impersonality) that is to be rigidly 
applied to all
> decisions.  It is the transformation by WILL of the Kama-Manasic 
into the
> Budhi-Manasic

Okay.

> Currently, the fiery debate relative to "Intelligent Design," and,
> "Evolutionary Development" merely points to the underlying nature 
of
> personal (material) INTELLIGENCE gradually (spiritually) 
individualizing
> itself  under the general laws of universal spiritual and 
impersonal effort.

An evolving intelligence is certainly not omniscient.

> Truth is no respecter of persons – let those of sluggish toes 
beware.  Often
> "tact" closely borders on untruth.  In the long run, honesty of 
speech is
> more valuable and less time-wasting.

I fully agree.

> I write this after many years checking and re-checking .

Thank you so much.

Blessings

Vince

--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "W.Dallas TenBroeck" 
<dalval14@...> wrote:
>
> 4/5/2006 6:28 AM
> 
>  
> 
>             RE: Dallas -  Fundamentalist misrepresentations  &
> 
>                                     Theosophical basics
> 
>  
> 
> Dear V:
> 
>  
> 
> Thanks, excuse my brevity and see notes below in text.  If not 
clear then
> ask again.
> 
>  
> 
> Let me say at the outset that THEOSOPHY, to me, is NOT one of the 
religions,
> philosophies or sciences, but, as HPB presents it, it is a 
synopsis (or
> précis) of the wisdom available to all great Initiates [Mahatmas] 
as also to
> the ATMA-BUDDHIC PRINCIPLE in each one of us, as a MONAD . We 
instinctively
> know when something is not TRUE  -- conscience ? ]
> 
>  
> 
> I consider it futile to try to adjust theosophical terminology to 
that used
> in current Western scientific debate.  [A library would be 
needed.  To
> abbreviate the effort I suggest learning a new language:  
THEOSOPHY --  and
> its special meanings.  This will be found to include a review of 
history as
> we know it and a number of adjustments will have to be made to 
that. Above
> all, we need to be carefully analyzing the concepts and processes 
of
> self-discipline offered on the `Path" of self-purification, for 
their
> fairness and accuracy. 
> 
>  
> 
> This may appear arbitrary.  But if we wish to learn about 
THEOSOPHY first we
> have to learn exactly what THEOSOPHY teaches.
> 
>  
> 
> Then we can compare those statements [facts to its deeper 
students] with
> modern science and its scholarly debates in many directions. 
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> First we may observe some similarities.
> 
>  
> 
> 1          "GOD," as concept, regardless of any credal "Name" is 
employed to
> indicate the prevalence of the primal original and unchanging 
PRINCIPLE of
> LIFE in SPACE, that pervades the whole of manifestation:
> 
>  
> 
>              "Since time began, and before there was beginning -- 
> 
>                         All things march to its drumming." 
> 
>  
> 
> 2          DURATION includes all cycles as divisions of TIME, 
whether
> manifested (manvantara) or non-manifested (pralaya), whether 
objective or
> subjective.
> 
>  
> 
> 3          A single LAW [KARMA] of honesty and justice prevails, 
unbroken
> and uniformly.  All beings are its subjects.  No being has the 
power to
> alter the EFFECTS which earlier CAUSES have set.  Its ideal 
is "duty" --
> DHARMA. 
> 
>  
> 
> 4          CONSCIOUSNESS      Is the ability to perceive along 
with any
> other being, on any other plane of intelligent action or 
perception.
> 
>  
> 
> 5          All forms are temporary projections of an INTELLIGENCE 
which is
> not entirely subject to experience (thought, act, feeling) in any 
plane.
> The reincarnation of "Intelligence" is the 'Path' of the human 
monadic
> progress at present. 
> 
>  
> 
> 6          The "ATOM" (as a basic unit of matter) is 
indestructible,
> eternally (and cyclically) active in the framework of its own (as 
well as of
> the universal) program.
> 
>  
> 
> 7          The "GOAL" of all  individual/personal experience  
through
> 'evolution,' is a perfect knowledge of LAW and of the power of 
choice.  It
> also recognizes the superior force of thought to psychism (also 
defined as
> sentiment and emotion -- likes and dislikes).
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> Here are what seems to me to be basic concepts found in all.
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> 1.         GOD   --  DEITY  --  UNIVERSE  --  NATURE  --  SPACE  
(to me:
> synonyms)
> 
> They are ALL inclusive, whether objective (in material tangible 
forms) or
> "subjective" (in ideas, thoughts, fancies, personal concepts and 
preferences
> or likes, etc., )
> 
>  
> 
> 2.         MONADS  [ATMA (Spirit)  and BUDDHI (Wisdom -- knowledge 
of facts,
> laws and karma of NATURE ) eternally conjoined. The opposing pole 
is the
> material "atom." [Itself, a definite and fixed, 'personal' focus 
of energy.]
> 
>  
> 
> 3.         Therefore, as the WHOLE UNIVERSE consists of 
these "spiritually
> wise Monads,"  each is as ancient as any other (an 
ancient "brotherhood" in
> fact).  To each, a "material" atomic counterpart is fixed.
> 
>  
> 
> 4.         Their "WISDOM [Buddhi]," includes for final reference, 
an exact
> and actual pictorial HISTORY of all events over vast periods of 
both
> manifested and non-manifested TIME [manvantaras and pralayas 
impacted in
> Akasa.  Thereon, the 'Path" (choices made by each free-willed 
independent
> Monad) that lead to the present exactitude of effects and 
circumstances) of
> each Monad can be retraced.]. 
> 
>  
> 
>             KARMA:   In this all-inclusive LAW, their (individual; 
and
> collective) 'WISDOM' may also be grasped as KARMA.  
> 
>  
> 
>             That implies a knowledge of all causal factors 
(choices made by
> each free-willed independent Monad) that lead to the present 
exactitude of
> effects and circumstances  All Monads of whatever level of 
experience embody
> and include these factors. There can be no concealment, evasion, or
> "influencing" any Karmic factor anywhere, or at any time -- from 
the vast
> past up to now. 
> 
>  
> 
> 5.         They [Monads] entirely pervade "SPACE" -- they are 
SPACE, and
> have always been there and will continue to be there.  
> 
>  
> 
> 6.         The Monad serves as a "connection" between the 
uncountable
> continually changing "personal forms" of matter in which 
INTELLIGENCE is
> refining itself by self-effort.
> 
>  
> 
> 7.         "EVOLUTION" is defined for Monads in the "human stage," 
as a
> moral struggle -- it is selfishness (of the personal emotional 
inclinations)
> vs. universality (or the impersonality) that is to be rigidly 
applied to all
> decisions.  It is the transformation by WILL of the Kama-Manasic 
into the
> Budhi-Manasic
> 
>  
> 
> Currently, the fiery debate relative to "Intelligent Design," and,
> "Evolutionary Development" merely points to the underlying nature 
of
> personal (material) INTELLIGENCE gradually (spiritually) 
individualizing
> itself  under the general laws of universal spiritual and 
impersonal effort.
> 
>  
> 
> Truth is no respecter of persons – let those of sluggish toes 
beware.  Often
> "tact" closely borders on untruth.  In the long run, honesty of 
speech is
> more valuable and less time-wasting. 
> 
>  
> 
> I write this after many years checking and re-checking .
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> Best wishes, 
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> Dallas
> 
>  
> 
> ==================================
> 
>  
> 
>  
>