Theos-Talk Archives (June 2005 Message tt00125)

 There is a saying in America just as pervasive as the Golden Rule: "What goes around, comes around".

David B.

-------------- Original message -------------- 

> Anand, friends, 
> 
> >Like almost all other countries America first serves her own 
> >interests. However they understand law of collective karma. 
> > 
> When I have visited other countries, I have been amazed at the strange 
> ideas non-Americans have about America. However, this is the first time 
> I have ever had a non-American tell me that our American leaders 
> "understand the law of collective karma." Not only do they not 
> understand it, but they would not believe in it if they did. Anand, 
> please understand that the United States is a "Christian country." 
> While there are some non-Christian people who live here, the leaders of 
> this country are either Christian or Jewish--or at least pretend to be 
> so if they want to remain in office. In their eyes, Karma is just 
> another one of those "heathen superstitions" coming from a lot of 
> ignorant people who believe in thousands of hideous looking gods. In 
> the eyes of a Christian, the fact that Hindus actually believe in these 
> grotesque "false gods" and bow to their idols is proof of their ignorance. 
> 
> Any good, true believing Evangelical Christian will tell you that 
> everything that happens to a person, or to a community or to a country 
> is ultimately in the hands of God. God ultimately decides the fate of 
> other countries and other people--not the United States. The good 
> Christian leader merely tries to carry out God's will. 
> 
> Do you think that President Bush is not a believing Evangelical 
> Christian? Do you really think that President Bush knows anything 
> about--let alone believes in "collective karma?" Are you aware that 
> President Bush speaks to God every day? So does his close advisers like 
> Conoleezza Rice, Tom DeLay, and Karl Rove. Richard Cheney, by the way, 
> is a Methodist. Bush's closest staff members have morning prayer 
> meetings in the White House before starting work. Are you aware that 
> Tom Delay, the Senate Majority whip, is under investigation and being 
> charged for widespread political corruption? Delay knows that he is 
> innocent of any wrong doing because he had told the country that "God 
> guides him in every decision he makes." Further, President Bush 
> believes that the end-of-times is very near, and one of the things that 
> will happen before the end time comes is that there will be a great war 
> in the Middle East. The good people (Americans) will have an all out 
> war with the evil people (the heathens, especially the Muslims in the 
> Middle East, where the war will be centered). It will be the final 
> battle of Good against Evil. Good will win, and the evil people 
> (Muslins, Hindus, and other non-Christians) will all burn in agony for 
> eternity in Hell because they did not accept Jesus as their savior. The 
> good people (Americans who have accepted Jesus as their savior) will go 
> to heaven and be with God. Under the Bush Administration, all policies 
> are made in context of beliefs of this nature. They are not based upon 
> come non-Christian notions about "collective karma." 
> 
> It is not just the White House where this kind of thinking goes on. It 
> is everywhere in middle America. In this town (where I live) we have 
> city council meeting twice a month. I attend the meetings. At the very 
> beginning of each meeting, everyone present stands and faces the 
> American flag and puts their right hand over their heart. They then in 
> unison pledge their loyalty to the flag and to the United States. They 
> affirm in unison that the United States is "One Nation *Under God.* 
> After they finish reciting the pledge (which is broadcast on 
> television), they sit down and bow their heads and join in a ten minute 
> prayer, led by a Christian Minister from a local church. During this 
> prayer, the Minister thanks God for all the good things that has come to 
> the city, and thanks God for being present and for guiding City Council 
> members in their decisions. He then thanks God for sending his only 
> begotten son, Jesus Christ, to earth in order to suffer on the cross and 
> die in order to atone for our sins. 
> 
> It is very important that you understand that Evangelical Christians are 
> already saved. Those who run this country don't have to worry about the 
> consequences of decisions which may inadvertently kill a few thousand 
> innocent people, or to inadvertently create a famine somewhere in the 
> world. If people are starving, or are unsuccessful, it is not about 
> their "karma." It is not about Congress making a bad decision. It is 
> because the people in that country were probably not "right with God" in 
> the first place. When they become right with God, then they will have 
> everything they want and need. The United States, therefore, has no 
> obligation to provide for India or any other country--especially 
> non-Christian ones. Think about it. 
> 
> >So they are wise enough to understand that if all countries progress America 
> >would automatically benefit. 
> > 
> This is not correct. Any Evangelical Christian will tell you that 
> America is the most powerful and the richest country in the world 
> because God favors America. This country will remain the wealthiest and 
> most powerful country as long as God wills it to be so. God will 
> continue to make it so as long as there are enough Americans who are 
> "right with God." The Pilgrims who came here in the seventeenth century 
> made a covenant with God. God keeps that covenant with America and 
> America keeps that covenant with God. It has nothing to do with how we 
> treat other countries--especially "heathen countries" who "worship false 
> gods." On the other hand, if a heathen country has cheap labor to 
> offer--why not? Think about it. 
> 
> >So many of America's policies take into account interests of other nations, 
> especially countries friendly to 
> >the US. All political, economic and other policies of the US are guided by 
> these principles. 
> > 
> I'm beginning to realize that the things you believe about this country 
> are more fantastic than the romantic myths the people of this country 
> create for themselves. In the case of Great Britain, you are right. 
> The United States and Great Britain do work very closely together. But 
> they do so in order to assure that world policies work in *their* 
> favor. However, Great Britain is the only country I can think of, off 
> hand, which might fit your statement. 
> 
> >I have my own idea about 'good English' but I would like to know what 
> >do you mean by 'good English' 
> > 
> By "good English" you must mean "good writing." Otherwise, what is 
> today called "good English" is also known as the "Queen's English." I 
> do not speak the Queen's English. Rather, I speak a mid-South dialect 
> of American English. 
> 
> Regarding what constitutes "good writing," I took several graduate 
> courses where we primarily engaged this question. It is not a question 
> which can be answered in a sentence or two. I would have to spend a 
> great deal of time discussing the process of writing itself; the 
> different kinds of discourse; different rules which apply and don't 
> apply to those different kinds of discourse; issues of style which also 
> takes into account the audience, occasion, purpose etc. After 
> considering these, we still have not begun to engage issues concerning 
> literary elements such as, genre, symbol, metaphor, irony, paradox etc. 
> Nor have we considered the linguistic elements such as grammar, syntax, 
> structure, semantics, and the use of phonology and morphology. I'm not 
> trying to snow you with a lot of jargon--rather, I am just trying to get 
> across to you that there is far more to your question than what appears 
> on the surface. Instead, allow me to give you a generalized and partial 
> answer to your question: 
> 
> First of all, what constitutes good writing depends upon the purpose the 
> writer wishes to accomplish. A poem, a business letter, a fictional 
> narrative, a descriptive technical paper, an expository essay etc. all 
> require different modes of writings--different applications of rules. 
> 
> If you want to explore this topic further in light of Theosophical 
> discourse, I suggest that you carefully re-read (in light of the new 
> information I give here), the two posts I previously sent you which 
> analyzed Blavatsky's writing. I also noticed that Dr. Tillett recently 
> posted some comments on the subject, which are also worth carefully 
> re-reading. Perhaps, you might wish to try your hand at it and post an 
> analysis of Leadbeater's writing. If so, I would read it with great 
> interest. 
> 
> 
> >>The most popular program at the time was a series called "Beverly Hills 
> 90210." It was a fictional series about the sex lives of teenage kids growing up 
> in Beverly Hills. 
> >> 
> >Perhaps most people in the world like this subject. TV programs are 
> >made according to demand from people. There is huge demand for such 
> >programs and so producers make and show such programs. 
> > 
> Precisely. And what does this say about "most people's" values? 
> 
> Best wishes, 
> 
> Jerry 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anand Gholap wrote: 
> 
> >Jerry, 
> > I wonder if you also 
> > 
> > 
> >>believe other popular American myths, like: "Anyone can become 
> >>President" or, "There are no poor people in America" or, "In 
> >> 
> >> 
> >American, 
> > 
> > 
> >>anyone can get rich." 
> >> 
> >> 
> > 
> >I don't believe in these American myths. 
> > 
> > I would add that: If you think that American 
> > 
> > 
> >>policy makers cares about the welfare of India, you are also sadly 
> >>mistaken. Policies which allow American jobs to go to India is 
> >> 
> >> 
> >solely 
> > 
> > 
> >>done to serve the interests of American corporations which are 
> >> 
> >> 
> >seeking 
> > 
> > 
> >>cheap labor to manufacture, and provides services for their 
> >> 
> >> 
> >products, 
> > 
> > 
> >>and to avoid paying taxes. 
> >> 
> >> 
> > 
> >Like almost all other countries America first serves her own 
> >interests. However they understand law of collective karma. So they 
> >are wise enough to understand that if all countries progress America 
> >would automatically benefit. So many of America's policies take into 
> >account interests of other nations, especially countries friendly to 
> >the US. All political, economic and other policies of the US are 
> >guided by these principles. 
> > 
> >I have my own idea about 'good English' but I would like to know what 
> >do you mean by 'good English' 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >>>However in newspapers I find that there are articles on large 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >number of topics including 
> > 
> > 
> >>>spirituality. 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>Only a small minority of Americans subscribe to or read newspapers. 
> >> 
> >> 
> > 
> >This is strange. I will comment after getting actual statistics. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >>>Other media also expose people to many other subjects which are 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >not covered in schools and 
> > 
> > 
> >>>universities. 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >>Unfortunately, the Majority of Americans do not have cable access 
> >> 
> >> 
> >(which 
> > 
> > 
> >>is too expensive for most people) and, therefore, never see those 
> >> 
> >> 
> >rare 
> > 
> > 
> >>quality programs, let alone the awful ones. 
> >> 
> >> 
> > 
> >This is also unbelievable. I will comment after getting statistics. 
> > 
> > 
> > One of the questions I asked was what was their favorite 
> > 
> > 
> >>program. The most popular program at the time was a series called 
> >>"Beverly Hills 90210." It was a fictional series about the sex 
> >> 
> >> 
> >lives of 
> > 
> > 
> >>teenage kids growing up in Beverly Hills. 
> >> 
> >> 
> > 
> >Perhaps most people in the world like this subject. TV programs are 
> >made according to demand from people. There is huge demand for such 
> >programs and so producers make and show such programs. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >>>It is only in Theosophy related things that America 
> >>>disappointed me. I hope they will improve. 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>You might take that issue up with TSA and tell me how far you get 
> >> 
> >> 
> >with 
> > 
> > 
> >>them. I tried to work with them for about thirty years and gave 
> >> 
> >> 
> >up. 
> > 
> > 
> >>Perhaps you will succeed where all others have failed. 
> >> 
> >> 
> > 
> >If I was staying in America it would have been much easier to do 
> >Theosophical work there. Still I will try my best to help. 
> > 
> > Best wishes, 
> >Anand Gholap 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >Yahoo! Groups Links 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

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