Theos-Talk Archives (June 2005 Message tt00126)

Morten,
You don't understand what evidence means. You are simply showing me 
what others wrote. That is not called evidence. You may show 100 such 
books and 100 articles by others criticizing. That is not evidence.
Anand Gholap

--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "M. Sufilight" <global-
theosophy@s...> wrote:
> Hallo Anand and all,
> 
> My views are:
> 
> 
> I understand it, that you now agree, that some Blavatskyian 
theosophists are 
> not fundamentalistic in the sense you sort of portrayed.
> 
> You asked a question.
> May I ask why do you want to know that?
> Did you not understand the excerpt I gave?
> 
> Is it required that a book should - want - to convey something 
specific?
> Maybe "the book" just want to watch how you respond - and whether 
you 
> learn - or - Learn How to Learn.
> "The book" is maybe actually quite clever....Aeehm maybe more 
clever than 
> you.
> :-)
> 
> 
> a)
> Here is some info - just hit the link "Look inside" - and read the 
preface, 
> content and introduction of the book mentioned.
> http://www.octagonpress.com/titles/books/leho.htm
> b)
> You could lend the book - it is
> quite likely, that you will find it at the nearest major library in 
your 
> area.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> from
> M. Sufilight
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Anand Gholap" <AnandGholap@A...>
> To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2005 3:51 PM
> Subject: Re: Theos-World Hypocrisy of Blavatskians
> 
> 
> > Morten,
> > You copied a book. Would you write in short what it wants to 
convey.
> >
> > Anand Gholap
> >
> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "M. Sufilight" <global-
> > theosophy@s...> wrote:
> >> Hallo Anand and all,
> >>
> >> My views are:
> >>
> >> The following might be helpful in understanding some of the
> > Blavatskians
> >> better...
> >>
> >>
> >> - - - A Curriculum of a School - - -
> >>
> >>
> >> Here is an interesting piece of spiritual teaching taken from the
> > book
> >> "Learning how to learn" by Idries Shah. The author Sylvia 
Cranston
> > who was
> >> behind the biography "HPB" has called Idries Shah an overlooked
> > author.
> >>
> >> What do the Theosophical readers and teachers think about the
> > below ? Is it
> >> Theosophy or not ?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> A CURRICULUM OF A SCHOOL
> >>
> >>
> >> "Q: Could you give us a view of the curriculum of a School,
> > from 'inside the
> >> School' so to speak?"
> >>
> >> "A: In our teaching, we must group correctly these elements: the
> > pupils, the
> >> teacher and the circumstances of study. Only at the right time 
and
> > place,
> >> with the teacher suitable to these, and with the right body of
> > students, can
> >> our studies be said to be capable of coherent development."
> >>
> >> "Does this sound difficult or unreasonable? Let us compare these
> >> requirements with an analogy of our needs: the ordinary 
educational
> >> institution."
> >>
> >> "If we are learning, say, physics, we must have a man skilled in
> > physics
> >> [having successfully completed his own training; able also to
> > teach; and
> >> with a mandate to teach]; students who want to learn and who have
> > capacity
> >> and some background for the study; and adequate laboratories and
> > other
> >> facilities for the studies to take place."
> >>
> >> "A physics teacher could not make any real progress with a class 
of
> > idiots,
> >> or people who primarily wanted power or fame or gain through
> > physics. These
> >> factors would be getting in the way of the teaching. A class of
> > brilliant
> >> students, faced with a man who knew no physics, or who only had a
> >> smattering, would make little progress. A good teacher, with a
> > student body,
> >> could do little unless the instruments and equipment, the 
building
> > and so
> >> on, were available as and when needed."
> >>
> >> "Yet this principle, so well established in conventional studies 
of
> > all
> >> kinds, is largely passed over and has fallen into disuse, among
> >> esotericists. Why? Because they have a primitive and 
unenlightened
> > attitude
> >> towards teaching. Like an oaf who has just heard of physics or 
only
> > seen
> >> some of its manifestations, the would-be student wants it all
> > *now*. He does
> >> not care about the necessary presence of other students. He wants
> > to skip
> >> the curriculum and he sees no connection between the building and
> > the
> >> subject of physics. So he does not want a laboratory."
> >>
> >> "Just observe what happens when people try to carry on learning 
or
> > teaching
> >> without the correct grouping of the three essentials:"
> >>
> >> "Would-be students always try to operate their studies with only
> > one, or at
> >> the most two, of the three factors. Teachers try to teach those 
who
> > are
> >> unsuitable, because of the difficulties of finding enough people 
to
> > form a
> >> class. Students who have no teacher try to teach themselves.
> > Transpose this
> >> into a group of people trying to learn physics, and you will see
> > some of
> >> their problems. Others group themselves around the literature and
> >> methodology of older schools, trying to make the scrap material 
of
> > someone
> >> else's physics laboratory work. They formalize rituals, become
> > obsessed by
> >> principles and slogans, assign disproportionate importance to the
> > elements
> >> which are only tools, but which they regard as a more significant
> > heritage."
> >>
> >> "Anyone can think of several schools, cults, religions, systems 
of
> >> psychology or philosophy which fall into the above 
classifications."
> >>
> >> "We must categorically affirm that it is impossible to increase
> > human
> >> knowledge in the higher field by these methods. The statistical
> > possibility
> >> of useful gains within a reasonable time is so remote as to be
> > excluded from
> >> one's calculations."
> >>
> >> "Why, then, do people insist on raking over the embers and 
looking
> > for truth
> >> when they have little chance of finding it? Simply because they 
are
> > using
> >> their conditioning propensity, not their capacity for higher
> > perception, to
> >> try to follow the path. There is intellectual stimulus and
> > emotional
> >> attraction in the mere effort to plumb the unknown. When the
> > ordinary human
> >> mind encounters evidences of a higher state of being, of even 
when
> > it
> >> conceives the possibility of them, it will invariably conclude 
that
> > there is
> >> some possibility of progress for that mind without the 
application
> > of the
> >> factors of teaching-teacher-students-time-and-place which are
> > essentials."
> >>
> >> "Man has few alternatives in his search for truth. He may rely 
upon
> > his
> >> unaided intellect, and gamble that he is capable of perceiving
> > truth or even
> >> the way to truth. This is a poor, but an attractive, gamble. Or 
he
> > can
> >> gamble upon the claims of an individual or institution which 
claims
> > to have
> >> such a way. This gamble, too, is a poor one. Aside from a very 
few,
> > wo/men
> >> in general lack a sufficiently developed perception to tell 
them:"
> >>
> >> Not to trust their own unaided mentation; Who or what to
> > trust. "There are,
> >> in consequence, two main schools of thought in this matter. Some
> > say 'Follow
> >> your own promptings'; the other says: 'Trust this or that
> > intuition'. Each
> >> is really useless to the ordinary wo/man. Each will help him use 
up
> > his
> >> time."
> >>
> >> "The bitter truth is that before man can know his own inadequacy,
> > or the
> >> competence of another man or institution, he must first learn
> > something
> >> which will enable him to perceive both. Note well that his
> > perception itself
> >> is a product of right study; not of instinct or emotional
> > attraction to the
> >> individual, nor yet of desiring to 'go it alone'. This 
is 'Learning
> > How To
> >> Learn."
> >>
> >> "All this means, of course, that we are postulating here the need
> > for
> >> preparatory study before school work takes place. We deny that a
> > man can
> >> study and properly benefit from school work until he is equipped
> > for it: any
> >> more than a person can study space-navigation unless he has a 
grasp
> > of
> >> mathematics."
> >>
> >> "This is not to say that a man (or a woman) cannot have a 
sensation
> > of
> >> truth. But the unorganized and fragmented mind which is most
> > people's
> >> heritage tends to distort the quality and quantity of this
> > sensation,
> >> leading to almost completely false conclusions about what can or
> > should be
> >> done."
> >>
> >> "This is not to say, either, that man cannot take part in studies
> > and
> >> activities which impinge upon that portion of him which is
> > connected with a
> >> higher life and cognition. But the mere application of special
> > techniques
> >> [often to everyone, regardless of their current state and
> > requirements] will
> >> not transform that man's consciousness. It will only feed into, 
and
> > disturb,
> >> more or less permanently, centers of thought and feeling where it
> > does not
> >> belong. Thus it is that something which should be a blessing
> > becomes a
> >> curse. Sugar, shall we say, for a normal person is nutritionally
> > useful. To
> >> a diabetic, it can be poison."
> >>
> >> "Therefore, before the techniques of study and development are 
made
> >> available to the student, he must be enabled to profit by them in
> > the
> >> direction in which they are supposed to lead, not in short-term
> > indulgence."
> >>
> >> "Thus our curriculum takes two parts: the first is in the 
providing
> > of
> >> materials of a preparatory nature, in order to equip the 
individual
> > to
> >> become a student. The second is the development itself."
> >>
> >> "If we, or anybody else, supply such study or preparatory 
material
> >> prematurely, it will only operate on a lower level than it could.
> > The result
> >> will be harmless at best. At worst, it will condition, train, the
> > mind of
> >> the individual to think and behave in patterns which are nothing
> > less than
> >> automatic. In this latter way one can make what seem to be
> > converts,
> >> unwittingly play upon emotions, on lesser desires and the
> > conditioning
> >> propensity; train people to loyalty to individuals, found and
> > maintain
> >> institutions which seem more or less serious or constructive. But
> > no real
> >> progress towards knowledge of the human being and the other
> > dimension in
> >> which he partly lives will in fact be made..."
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Is this what the different theosophical branches are doing 
today ?
> >> If not, then why not ?
> >>
> >> It could be to your advantage to read the text more than one 
time.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> *******
> >>
> >>
> >> M. Sufilight
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message ----- 
> >> From: "Anand Gholap" <AnandGholap@A...>
> >> To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
> >> Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 1:59 PM
> >> Subject: Theos-World Hypocrisy of Blavatskians
> >>
> >>
> >> > Blavatskians always refer Blavatsky's statements to know truth.
> >> > According to Blavatsky religions are given by Great Teachers 
from
> > the
> >> > Occult Hierarchy for guiding people.
> >> > When anybody practices his religion e.g. Christianity,
> > Blavatskians
> >> > criticize him. This is one example of hypocrisy of Blavatkians.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >