Theos-Talk Archives (March 2005 Message tt00017)

Apparently though Katherine Tingley succeeded Judge, she was 
not 'appointed' by Judge as his successor. This is despite the fact 
that Judge was ill for long time and it was natural for him to 
imagine who would be successor if he dies. Yet information available 
shows he did not 'appoint' anybody as his successor. 
Anand Gholap

--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Alaya" <lalaya7@y...> wrote:
> 
> we can find in the blavatskyarchieves about Mrs. Tingley
> ". . . Mrs. Katherine Tingley. . . [was] a professional psychic and 
> trance medium in New York. . . .For those of us who followed Mr. 
> Judge in 1895, later discovered that about the time of H.P.B.'s 
death 
> or soon after (the exact date is not known to me), Mr. Judge came 
> under the influence of this woman, who is possessed of considerable 
> hypnotic and other dangerous powers. He had consulted her, in her 
> capacity as a medium, which led eventually to her obtaining a 
> complete hold over him, and also over Theosophical friends whom he 
> introduced to her, and to their accepting her as a Chela of the 
> Masters; one for whom Mr. Judge believed he had been told to seek.  
> She gave him "messages" purporting to be from Them, but 
subsequently 
> I discovered that most - if not all- of those which he gave out as 
> having been received by him had come "through" Mrs. Tingley. The 
> whole history of this extraordinary delusion is a long and 
> complicated one, some of it being contained in the E.S. documents 
in 
> my possession.". . . 
> T. Collins said:
> "in the Tibetan
> tradition high incarnations are found and taught from an early age."
> 
> Anyone can be taught from an early age
> Not necessarily this means a `high incarnation'
> 
> "It is not only a question of anyones accomplishments and
> performance of one's duties but also of degrees of consciousness."
> 
> Yeah, the degree of consuousness is extremely important...
> And besan was a chela on probation only
> While Judge was an accepted chela 30 years standing
> Even though... they were not a HPB...
> 
> 
> >>>>>In a message dated 01/29/05 2:03:37 PM, Anand Gholap... writes:
> In 1900 Master K.H. wrote letter to Annie Besant who was the head
> of
> ES-Adyar with following words " The greatest of your trials is
> yet to
> come. We watch over you but you must put forth all your strength-
> K.H."
> It is clear from words of Master that Annie Besant was Their true
> agent in Esoteric matters and Adyar TS as only true Theosophical
> 
> Is it so clear, or you just want to believe on that?
> Now, about the letter from the Master in 1900
> We should analyse it carefully.
> First of all.. many people received letters from the masters, the 
> vast majority as HPB atests us, failed... and Damodar was the only 
> true sucess.
> Maybe the SAINT pedophyle Leadbeater was also a failure...
> 
> Besant having received a letter doesn't mean that SHE was THEIR 
TRUE 
> AGENT... this is an exageration.
> Whoever a little usefull would be leading the T.S, this person 
would 
> receive a letter... it is not because she is Annie Besant, is 
because 
> at that present moment it was she, not other, that was responsible 
> for the T.S.. 
> 1900 was the last year the Masters could have their influence (as 
we 
> learn from HPB who sais that every last quarter os a century the 
> Masters exercise their influence. If they still cared at least a 
bit 
> about the T.S they would surely send a last advice...
> The letter seem to be sent with an intention of saying `don't let 
it 
> die' (the society)
> It doesn't seem a letter to give authority to Besant or confirme 
her 
> as the only anr true sucesssor of HPB (and we know she wasn't.. and 
> the E.S Council responsible for the T.S after H.P.B's death 
nominated 
> Judge and Besant, and avid for power she couldn't accept not to be 
> the only one)
> You can find some information on the sucessorship right after 
H.P.B's 
> death here
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/22531
> 
> The letter's intention seems to be beg Besant to stop the way the 
T.S 
> was being led... a last hope...
> The same letter would be sent to other if other was in charge...
> 
> Now, let us notice something about the letter
> What about its content?
> It begins with a strong criticism by the master about the way the 
T.S 
> was going...
> "A psychic and a pranayamist who has got confused by the vagaries 
of 
> the members. The T.S. And its members are slowly MANUFACTURING a 
> CREED. Says a Tibetan proverb "credulity breeds credulity and ends 
in 
> HYPOCRISY." How FEW are they who can KNOW ANYTHINGABOUT US. Are we 
to 
> be propitiated and made idols of? Is the worship of a new trinity 
> made up of the blessed M., Upasika and yourself to take the place 
of 
> exploded creeds? We ask NOT for the WORSHIP OF OURSELVES. The 
> disciple should in no way be fettered. BEWARE OF AN ESOTERIC 
POPERY."
> Doesn't all this support the quotes I posted from Alice Cleather's 
> book on 25/02?
> Besant was being acused by old members to create a creed. And the 
> Master is warning that the T.S is going on the way to hypocrisy. 
She 
> was being criticized by the old and tried members who knew H.P.B 
that 
> she didn't accept that someone could think differently from her. 
And 
> notice that it was only 7 years latter (if my memory doesn't fail) 
> that she was caught in Leadbeater's trap... and things went worse 
and 
> worse...
> The master even compares the T.S with POPERY.. this doesn't seem a 
> good thing to me
> Is this the `wonderfull letter confirming the saint besant as a 
true 
> and only sucessor'? as some seem to think....
> And they ask her to stop the worship of themselves... To give 
> authorithy to her own sayings she started to talk a lot about 
them.. 
> something you can see that they didn't like...
> And if the Master felt necessity to atest that FEW know anything 
> about them... probably there were some people saying things about 
> them and and telling that their teachings come from them.. and that 
> was a lie. 
> What else can we notice from this letter?
> 
> "The intense desire to see upasika reincarnate at once has raised a 
> MISLEADING MAYAVIC IDEATION. Upasika has useful work to do on 
higher 
> planes and cannot come again so soon. The T.S. must safely be 
ushered 
> into the new century. You have for some time been UNDER DELUDING 
> INFLUENCES. Shun PRIDE, VANITY and LOVE OF POWER. Be not guided by 
> emotion but learn to stand alone. Be accurate and critical rather 
> than CREDULOUS. The mistakes of the past in the old religions must 
> not be glossed over with imaginary explanations."
> 
> All this statements from the Master support what Mrs. Alice 
Cleather 
> was trying to show on her book "H.P.B - a great betrayal"
> The first sentence refers to something that alice also explains, 
that 
> Besant believed that H.P.B was reborn in india and was a child that 
> was under Besant's influnce. With this argument she publishes the 
> secret material from the Inner Group (breaking her secrecy pledge, 
> which should have been sacred to her, unfortunatelly it wasn't...) 
> She says that the `little HPB' asked her to do so and also that 
> the "little HPB" asked her to revised and correct [mislead] the S.D 
> and many other things...
> And then the Master himself tells her that she is under a mayavic 
> ideation.
> And the Master himself warned her that she was under delunding 
> influences (and this is all Mrs. Alice Cleather, M. Lévy, W. 
> Kingsland and others war trying to prove, to protect the new member 
> to fall into the same trap – so what is so wrong about warning 
people 
> of something even the master admited to be wrong on Mrs. Besant?)
> And the master also seem to agree with Mrs. Cleather and all the 
> others that Mrs. Besant was showing pride, vanity and love of 
power, 
> and that was what was leading her.. not the true `feelings' a real 
> theosophist should have.
> The masters don't interfere in worlds affairs... Besant was head of 
> the T.S by her own politics and fakes (like confirming that she 
> herself has destroyed all the proofs that were in favour to Judge). 
> They didn't nominate her... all they could do is to asure that the 
> the T.S wasn't going to lead the foul road to popery... and if the 
> T.S was working well they would NOT have felt the necessity to send 
a 
> last letter trying to correct the mistakes
> The only good thing we can find in the letter is the final 
sentence , 
> that they STILL haven't given up... But considering the way things 
> were few years latter this letter... I guess unfortunately we can 
be 
> quite sure that the T.S was a dead letter...
> 
> Still in the letter
> "NO ONE HAS THE RIGHT TO CLAIM AUTHORITY OVER A PUPIL or his 
> conscience. Ask him not what he believes. All who are sincere and 
> pure minded must have admittance. The crest wave of intellectual 
> advancement must be taken hold of and guided into spirituality. It 
> CANNOT BE FORCER INTO BELIEFS AND EMOTIONAL WORSHIP."
> >> and what has Mr. Leadbeater , supported by Besant, done????? 
(with 
> Krishnamurti and maybe others) 
> 
> and more criticizm by the Master on the letter
> "Misleading secrecy has given the death blow to numerous 
> organizations." – this was arising in the T.S.. little by little...
> 
> "The CANT (hipocrisy) ABOUT the "Masters" MUST be silently but 
firmly 
> PUT DOWN.... THE CONTINUAL REFERENCES TO OURSELVES AND THE 
REPETITION 
> OF OUR NAMES RAISES UP A CONFUSED AURA THAT HINDERS OUR WORK"
> 
> And what have Mr. Leadbeater and Besant done??? Published works on 
> the Masters, open to the unfiting public their sacred lifes and 
> names, and made disrespecful and ridiculous statmens like this ones 
> above in one of their books
> 
> "In the course of their investigations these two (Besant and
> Leadbeater) look up on the one side, the past incarnations of him
> whom Mrs. Besant calls the "Master Jesus", that is, of the "Jesus"
> born in 105 b.C; and on the other side, the past lives of the being
> whom she calls the "Lord Maitreya, the present Bodhisattva, the
> Supreme Teacher of the World" whose ego at a given moment replaced
> that of "Jesus", this being the last incarnation of the Christ whose
> immediate return (as Krishnamurti) she is announcing.
> "Let us quote from their account of the incarnations of the "Supreme
> Teacher"...
> `In the Fourth Root Race we again find the personage supposed to
> be "Maitreya" as the husband of the ego claimed by these authors as
> that of "Master K.H". Mrs. Besant is again incarnated in the family
> as daughter, the eldest sister of the "Master M."; "Maitreya", being
> at this time the head of the trime."
> 
> 
> >>Has Mrs. Besant given atention to Master K.H request to stop 
> refering to them and using their names? Has she respected his will
> No, she made quite the contrary
> And for many years the T.S did turned into a creed under 
Leadbeater's 
> guidance.
> 
> And now.. Do we have the right to criticize the Masters criticism 
on 
> her.. is she this Splendind, wonderful and santificated woman some 
> are here trying to prove?
> Maybe the Inner group members weren't so wrong to criticize her..
> And who are we to judge them.. and to judge assertions of the 
Master 
> himself?
> 
> 
> 
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Truth Collins" 
> <tcollins93006@y...> wrote:
> > 
> > Did W.Q. Judge appoint Tingley as his successer? I don't think 
he 
> > did. I have read articles to this effect. Look in the ULT 
> articles 
> > online about Crosbie for more on this.
> > 
> > In my opinion, people like H.P. Blavatsky and W.Q. Judge are 
born 
> > already having reached a certain degree of consciousness. Not to 
> > mention the efforts after being born. For example, in the 
Tibetan 
> > tradition high incarnations are found and taught from an early 
age.
> > 
> > The question of successorship is more compicated than it first 
> > looks. It is not only a question of anyones accomplishments and 
> > performance of one's duties but also of degrees of consciousness.
> > 
> > What is the attitude of someone with the degrees of 
consciousness 
> > of say H.P. Blavatsky or H.P. Blavatsky? Well, whatever it is, 
it 
> > is beneficiant.
> > 
> > Blavatsky and Judge helped the people that are now being argued 
> > about. This is the attitude that I recommend. An attitude that 
> > helps the other, if anything.
> > 
> > A. Besant and K. Tingley too. They helped as they saw fit.
> > 
> > This is the common denominator between them.
> > 
> > There is a saying that the least common denominator usually rules 
a 
> > conversation. This in a world dominated by the three rulers: 
> money, 
> > power and sex.
> > 
> > The inverse seems to be closer to the truth for people like H.P. 
> > Blavatsky. The higher triad of atma, buddhi, manas is not 
> > subjugated by peer pressure.
> > 
> > Namaste, Truth C.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, leonmaurer@a... wrote:
> > > Unfortuunately, Besant's strengh ran out and she couldn't hack 
it 
> > after she 
> > > fell for and got caught up in the black magical snares of the 
> > impostor 
> > > Leadbeater. I'm sure K.H. was, to say the least, very 
> > disappointed by that. :-)
> > > 
> > > Lenny Maurer
> > > 
> > > In a message dated 01/29/05 2:03:37 PM, AnandGholap@A... writes:
> > > 
> > > >After splitting of the TS, in 1890s, some people were and 
still 
> > are 
> > > >confused about which society is actually Masters' Society. 
Judge 
> > died 
> > > >in 1896 after appointing Katherin Tingley as his successor. 
> > > >In 1900 Master K.H. wrote letter to Annie Besant who was the 
> head 
> > of 
> > > >ES-Adyar with following words " The greatest of your trials is 
> > yet to 
> > > >come. We watch over you but you must put forth all your 
strength-
>  
> > > >K.H." 
> > > >
> > > >It is clear from words of Master that Annie Besant was Their 
> true 
> > > >agent in Esoteric matters and Adyar TS as only true 
Theosophical 
> > > >Society. 
> > > >
> > > >Anand Gholap