Theos-Talk Archives (March 2005 Message tt00008)

we can find in the blavatskyarchieves about Mrs. Tingley
". . . Mrs. Katherine Tingley. . . [was] a professional psychic and 
trance medium in New York. . . .For those of us who followed Mr. 
Judge in 1895, later discovered that about the time of H.P.B.'s death 
or soon after (the exact date is not known to me), Mr. Judge came 
under the influence of this woman, who is possessed of considerable 
hypnotic and other dangerous powers. He had consulted her, in her 
capacity as a medium, which led eventually to her obtaining a 
complete hold over him, and also over Theosophical friends whom he 
introduced to her, and to their accepting her as a Chela of the 
Masters; one for whom Mr. Judge believed he had been told to seek.  
She gave him "messages" purporting to be from Them, but subsequently 
I discovered that most - if not all- of those which he gave out as 
having been received by him had come "through" Mrs. Tingley. The 
whole history of this extraordinary delusion is a long and 
complicated one, some of it being contained in the E.S. documents in 
my possession.". . . 
T. Collins said:
"in the Tibetan
tradition high incarnations are found and taught from an early age."

Anyone can be taught from an early age
Not necessarily this means a `high incarnation'

"It is not only a question of anyones accomplishments and
performance of one's duties but also of degrees of consciousness."

Yeah, the degree of consuousness is extremely important...
And besan was a chela on probation only
While Judge was an accepted chela 30 years standing
Even though... they were not a HPB...


>>>>>In a message dated 01/29/05 2:03:37 PM, Anand Gholap... writes:
In 1900 Master K.H. wrote letter to Annie Besant who was the head
of
ES-Adyar with following words " The greatest of your trials is
yet to
come. We watch over you but you must put forth all your strength-
K.H."
It is clear from words of Master that Annie Besant was Their true
agent in Esoteric matters and Adyar TS as only true Theosophical

Is it so clear, or you just want to believe on that?
Now, about the letter from the Master in 1900
We should analyse it carefully.
First of all.. many people received letters from the masters, the 
vast majority as HPB atests us, failed... and Damodar was the only 
true sucess.
Maybe the SAINT pedophyle Leadbeater was also a failure...

Besant having received a letter doesn't mean that SHE was THEIR TRUE 
AGENT... this is an exageration.
Whoever a little usefull would be leading the T.S, this person would 
receive a letter... it is not because she is Annie Besant, is because 
at that present moment it was she, not other, that was responsible 
for the T.S.. 
1900 was the last year the Masters could have their influence (as we 
learn from HPB who sais that every last quarter os a century the 
Masters exercise their influence. If they still cared at least a bit 
about the T.S they would surely send a last advice...
The letter seem to be sent with an intention of saying `don't let it 
die' (the society)
It doesn't seem a letter to give authority to Besant or confirme her 
as the only anr true sucesssor of HPB (and we know she wasn't.. and 
the E.S Council responsible for the T.S after H.P.B's death nominated 
Judge and Besant, and avid for power she couldn't accept not to be 
the only one)
You can find some information on the sucessorship right after H.P.B's 
death here
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/22531

The letter's intention seems to be beg Besant to stop the way the T.S 
was being led... a last hope...
The same letter would be sent to other if other was in charge...

Now, let us notice something about the letter
What about its content?
It begins with a strong criticism by the master about the way the T.S 
was going...
"A psychic and a pranayamist who has got confused by the vagaries of 
the members. The T.S. And its members are slowly MANUFACTURING a 
CREED. Says a Tibetan proverb "credulity breeds credulity and ends in 
HYPOCRISY." How FEW are they who can KNOW ANYTHINGABOUT US. Are we to 
be propitiated and made idols of? Is the worship of a new trinity 
made up of the blessed M., Upasika and yourself to take the place of 
exploded creeds? We ask NOT for the WORSHIP OF OURSELVES. The 
disciple should in no way be fettered. BEWARE OF AN ESOTERIC POPERY."
Doesn't all this support the quotes I posted from Alice Cleather's 
book on 25/02?
Besant was being acused by old members to create a creed. And the 
Master is warning that the T.S is going on the way to hypocrisy. She 
was being criticized by the old and tried members who knew H.P.B that 
she didn't accept that someone could think differently from her. And 
notice that it was only 7 years latter (if my memory doesn't fail) 
that she was caught in Leadbeater's trap... and things went worse and 
worse...
The master even compares the T.S with POPERY.. this doesn't seem a 
good thing to me
Is this the `wonderfull letter confirming the saint besant as a true 
and only sucessor'? as some seem to think....
And they ask her to stop the worship of themselves... To give 
authorithy to her own sayings she started to talk a lot about them.. 
something you can see that they didn't like...
And if the Master felt necessity to atest that FEW know anything 
about them... probably there were some people saying things about 
them and and telling that their teachings come from them.. and that 
was a lie. 
What else can we notice from this letter?

"The intense desire to see upasika reincarnate at once has raised a 
MISLEADING MAYAVIC IDEATION. Upasika has useful work to do on higher 
planes and cannot come again so soon. The T.S. must safely be ushered 
into the new century. You have for some time been UNDER DELUDING 
INFLUENCES. Shun PRIDE, VANITY and LOVE OF POWER. Be not guided by 
emotion but learn to stand alone. Be accurate and critical rather 
than CREDULOUS. The mistakes of the past in the old religions must 
not be glossed over with imaginary explanations."

All this statements from the Master support what Mrs. Alice Cleather 
was trying to show on her book "H.P.B - a great betrayal"
The first sentence refers to something that alice also explains, that 
Besant believed that H.P.B was reborn in india and was a child that 
was under Besant's influnce. With this argument she publishes the 
secret material from the Inner Group (breaking her secrecy pledge, 
which should have been sacred to her, unfortunatelly it wasn't...) 
She says that the `little HPB' asked her to do so and also that 
the "little HPB" asked her to revised and correct [mislead] the S.D 
and many other things...
And then the Master himself tells her that she is under a mayavic 
ideation.
And the Master himself warned her that she was under delunding 
influences (and this is all Mrs. Alice Cleather, M. Lévy, W. 
Kingsland and others war trying to prove, to protect the new member 
to fall into the same trap – so what is so wrong about warning people 
of something even the master admited to be wrong on Mrs. Besant?)
And the master also seem to agree with Mrs. Cleather and all the 
others that Mrs. Besant was showing pride, vanity and love of power, 
and that was what was leading her.. not the true `feelings' a real 
theosophist should have.
The masters don't interfere in worlds affairs... Besant was head of 
the T.S by her own politics and fakes (like confirming that she 
herself has destroyed all the proofs that were in favour to Judge). 
They didn't nominate her... all they could do is to asure that the 
the T.S wasn't going to lead the foul road to popery... and if the 
T.S was working well they would NOT have felt the necessity to send a 
last letter trying to correct the mistakes
The only good thing we can find in the letter is the final sentence , 
that they STILL haven't given up... But considering the way things 
were few years latter this letter... I guess unfortunately we can be 
quite sure that the T.S was a dead letter...

Still in the letter
"NO ONE HAS THE RIGHT TO CLAIM AUTHORITY OVER A PUPIL or his 
conscience. Ask him not what he believes. All who are sincere and 
pure minded must have admittance. The crest wave of intellectual 
advancement must be taken hold of and guided into spirituality. It 
CANNOT BE FORCER INTO BELIEFS AND EMOTIONAL WORSHIP."
>> and what has Mr. Leadbeater , supported by Besant, done????? (with 
Krishnamurti and maybe others) 

and more criticizm by the Master on the letter
"Misleading secrecy has given the death blow to numerous 
organizations." – this was arising in the T.S.. little by little...

"The CANT (hipocrisy) ABOUT the "Masters" MUST be silently but firmly 
PUT DOWN.... THE CONTINUAL REFERENCES TO OURSELVES AND THE REPETITION 
OF OUR NAMES RAISES UP A CONFUSED AURA THAT HINDERS OUR WORK"

And what have Mr. Leadbeater and Besant done??? Published works on 
the Masters, open to the unfiting public their sacred lifes and 
names, and made disrespecful and ridiculous statmens like this ones 
above in one of their books

"In the course of their investigations these two (Besant and
Leadbeater) look up on the one side, the past incarnations of him
whom Mrs. Besant calls the "Master Jesus", that is, of the "Jesus"
born in 105 b.C; and on the other side, the past lives of the being
whom she calls the "Lord Maitreya, the present Bodhisattva, the
Supreme Teacher of the World" whose ego at a given moment replaced
that of "Jesus", this being the last incarnation of the Christ whose
immediate return (as Krishnamurti) she is announcing.
"Let us quote from their account of the incarnations of the "Supreme
Teacher"...
`In the Fourth Root Race we again find the personage supposed to
be "Maitreya" as the husband of the ego claimed by these authors as
that of "Master K.H". Mrs. Besant is again incarnated in the family
as daughter, the eldest sister of the "Master M."; "Maitreya", being
at this time the head of the trime."


>>Has Mrs. Besant given atention to Master K.H request to stop 
refering to them and using their names? Has she respected his will
No, she made quite the contrary
And for many years the T.S did turned into a creed under Leadbeater's 
guidance.

And now.. Do we have the right to criticize the Masters criticism on 
her.. is she this Splendind, wonderful and santificated woman some 
are here trying to prove?
Maybe the Inner group members weren't so wrong to criticize her..
And who are we to judge them.. and to judge assertions of the Master 
himself?



--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Truth Collins" 
<tcollins93006@y...> wrote:
> 
> Did W.Q. Judge appoint Tingley as his successer? I don't think he 
> did. I have read articles to this effect. Look in the ULT 
articles 
> online about Crosbie for more on this.
> 
> In my opinion, people like H.P. Blavatsky and W.Q. Judge are born 
> already having reached a certain degree of consciousness. Not to 
> mention the efforts after being born. For example, in the Tibetan 
> tradition high incarnations are found and taught from an early age.
> 
> The question of successorship is more compicated than it first 
> looks. It is not only a question of anyones accomplishments and 
> performance of one's duties but also of degrees of consciousness.
> 
> What is the attitude of someone with the degrees of consciousness 
> of say H.P. Blavatsky or H.P. Blavatsky? Well, whatever it is, it 
> is beneficiant.
> 
> Blavatsky and Judge helped the people that are now being argued 
> about. This is the attitude that I recommend. An attitude that 
> helps the other, if anything.
> 
> A. Besant and K. Tingley too. They helped as they saw fit.
> 
> This is the common denominator between them.
> 
> There is a saying that the least common denominator usually rules a 
> conversation. This in a world dominated by the three rulers: 
money, 
> power and sex.
> 
> The inverse seems to be closer to the truth for people like H.P. 
> Blavatsky. The higher triad of atma, buddhi, manas is not 
> subjugated by peer pressure.
> 
> Namaste, Truth C.
> 
> 
> 
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, leonmaurer@a... wrote:
> > Unfortuunately, Besant's strengh ran out and she couldn't hack it 
> after she 
> > fell for and got caught up in the black magical snares of the 
> impostor 
> > Leadbeater. I'm sure K.H. was, to say the least, very 
> disappointed by that. :-)
> > 
> > Lenny Maurer
> > 
> > In a message dated 01/29/05 2:03:37 PM, AnandGholap@A... writes:
> > 
> > >After splitting of the TS, in 1890s, some people were and still 
> are 
> > >confused about which society is actually Masters' Society. Judge 
> died 
> > >in 1896 after appointing Katherin Tingley as his successor. 
> > >In 1900 Master K.H. wrote letter to Annie Besant who was the 
head 
> of 
> > >ES-Adyar with following words " The greatest of your trials is 
> yet to 
> > >come. We watch over you but you must put forth all your strength-
 
> > >K.H." 
> > >
> > >It is clear from words of Master that Annie Besant was Their 
true 
> > >agent in Esoteric matters and Adyar TS as only true Theosophical 
> > >Society. 
> > >
> > >Anand Gholap