Theos-Talk Archives (December 2004 Message tt00080)

Hi Bill

I am reading the entire article on line and agree with many afirmations anddoubt of many too.
The article excerpt you kindly included for example says " The idealized fantasy of perfect 
enlightenment does not exist anywhere in the real world and it has never 
existed." 
Iīll throw my theos books in the trash bin!(smile)
_______________________________________________________
Other excerpts from the link that show the limitations of the "thinkers".The authority of the articles are also questionable, but useful to see other POVīs:

" In my opinion, the world would be better off if most of the books writtenby the famous mystics were used for fuel to keep us all warm at night. "
"Meditation is basic good-clean-fun."
"Objectively, by any measurement, enlightened people are as egocentric as anyone else."
"There was no "Lord Buddha," only an enlightened Siddhartha Gautama. Therewas no "Lord Jesus," only a carpenter who made extravagant claims. The only way to be egoless is to physically die and not come back into this world. If you are here, you have an ego. Do not fool yourself or allow yourself to be fooled by others. "
Christopher Calder
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
There are and there were real enlighted people in the world.
I believe it.
The sub-links of the mentioned link lead us to other articles of doubtful background as the claiming that if we loose the ego our brain cannot surviveand things like that prove that the people who wrote have a limited awareness of what ego and personality is, he is another seeker like us, whose fallibility is plainly possible.

Krishtar

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Bill Meredith 
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 12:14 AM
Subject: Re: Theos-World compassion thoughts on osho



Bart,

Thanks for the Osho link. I hope the folks who find the time to attack you 
also find the time to read the essay. I have included a small section below 
because it speaks to the issue of "masters" --even theosophical masters ---  
from a perspective with which I generally am in agreement.

regards,

bill

excerpt from http://home.att.net/~meditation/Osho.html


< Rajneesh's disciples thought they were following an authoritative 
"enlightened master." In reality they had been mislead by a highly fallible 
enlightened human animal who was still a little boy at heart. Rajneesh had 
not only misrepresented himself personally, but he misrepresented the 
phenomena of enlightenment itself. The idealized fantasy of perfect 
enlightenment does not exist anywhere in the real world and it has never 
existed. The universe is far too big and complex for anyone to be its 
"master." We are all subjects, not masters, and those who pretend to be 
infallible and all-knowing end up looking even more the fool in the end.

"Nature does not use anything as a model. It is only interested in 
perfecting the species. It is trying to create perfect species and not 
perfect beings." U.G. Krishnamurti

The famous sages of old seem perfect to us now only because they have 
become larger than life myths. The long passage of time has allowed their 
followers to effectively cover up their guru's flaws, just as Rajneesh 
disciples are currently rewriting and censoring history to cover up 
Rajneesh's great failings. Rajneesh was never more infallible than any 
other human being. What we call enlightenment is not a cure-all for faults 
and frailties that cling to human animals even after they achieve maximum 
possible consciousness, which is perhaps a more realistic definition of the 
term 'enlightenment.'

The contradiction of corruption and enlightenment can occur because the 
individual is only the lens of enlightenment, not the source of cosmic power 
itself. The enlightened only allow universal energy to pass through them 
unblocked, untouched, and uncontaminated. In a way no one ever really 
becomes enlightened personally. Enlightenment happens at the place where 
you are standing but you cannot own it or possess it. All the words of 
so-called enlightened men come from the human brain which interprets the 
phenomena of enlightenment like a translator. The words do not come from 
the enlightenment itself. By definition enlightenment cannot speak. It is 
absolutely silent and beyond any need to speak. >




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