Theos-Talk Archives (February 2003 Message tt00283)

Hello bart,

see my answers intersparsed with your answers:

Bart Lidofsky wrote:

> Theo Paijmans wrote:
> > So, netxt to the 'made in Germany and France'labels, we see the 'made in America
> > and England' labels too. And on another note. Osama Bin Laden has been trained by
> > the CIA,
>
> No, he wasn't.

Yes he was. It is a common known fact that Osama Bin Laden was trained by the CIA in
the 80's when there still was a war against Communism.

> > and Afghani Taliban were supported by the US Army in their war against
> > the Soviets. It was American Stingers that blew Russian choppers out of the air.
>
> That is right. They were instructed in defensive war, against attacking
> military forces. They were NOT instructed in terrorist activity by the
> U.S.; that came from other Arab countries.

The point is that America has forfeit all its credibility by using allies and then
discarding them and then declaring them enemies; all in the name of its dominat
geopolitics.

> > By the way, a small ironic point in America's war against drugs:
>
> There is none. It is a war on civil rights, using drugs as an excuse.

The millions of junkies in America who have benefitted greatly from amongst others,
Oliver Norths Iran-Contragate (smuggle drugs for arms) will probably disagree with you.
But hey, why don't find out and visit a local detox centre on a time.

> > when the Taliban
> > ruled over Afghanistan, at least the heroin production stopped.
>
> And Mussolini got the trains to run on time. Did you read any of the
> huge amount of literature about the oppression of women, just for
> example, in Taliban Afghanistan?

Yes, I knew you would hurtle that argument towards me, that was why I specifically used
the expression "at least". And of course I do not agree with their suppression of
women, or by the way, the abolition of abortion rights for women in the USA - if it
comes to that and this will pass, I am afraid.

> > As a side note: what, I ask you, about the deliberate attack by Israeli forces on
> > the unarmed USS Liberty in 1967, an American ship? Do you actually know of that
> > case?
>
> 10 U.S. investigations and 3 Israeli investigations all concluded that
> it was a mistake. The U.S. misreported the position of the Liberty (they
> had declared publicly that there were no ships within 100 miles of the
> fighting, but the orders to the Liberty to stay away were not received).
> An Israeli town was being shelled from a position approximately where
> the Liberty was. The Liberty was moving at near-warship speed, rather
> than the slower speed which noncombatants were required to observe, by
> both Israeli and American rules. The American flag was not properly
> displayed, and was knocked down, making the ship an unidentified vessel.
> According to CIA reports, the Liberty looked similar to an Egyption
> ship, the El Quseir. The torpedo attack causing the deaths on the
> Liberty only took place after the Liberty started shooting at the Israelis.
>
> Once the mistake was realized, Israel offered their military to help
> with the rescue operations (an offer that was accepted). Later, Israel
> paid reparations to the United States and the families of the victims.

I see you have been well informed in the proper way to believe. As I witnessed in the
documentary yesterday, others would say when asked - and among them the captain of the
ship, its crew mates and several Israeli men who shot at the ship in 1967: fool
yourself. Take for instance Operation Cyanide in connection with the USS Liberty
attack. But I guess that is not the proper way to believe.

You see Bart, this exchance of thoughts between you and me is not about ego, or about
wanting to win, or about starting a flame war. It is about the matrix of thought; about
being stuck in what to believe; it is about being forcefed lies for years; and about
how the USA is about to enter another bloody war - again for a bunch of lies.