Theos-Talk Archives (January 2003 Message tt00067)

January 5th 2003

Dear T

Why not turn this around?

WE are surrounded by our thoughts and feelings. But, who are WE ?

WE shape our world by choice. WE have that power innately, because we
are basically Spiritual Beings. Spirit is higher in power than
thoughts, feelings, instincts, etc...

Work it out for yourself ( I send a short essay--below-- which might
prove helpful to consider.}

We are affected by our memories of thoughts and feelings, but they do
not rule us at all. They are posted in our self as things to
re-consider. Re-consider on the light of new in formation.

No we are not all similar or stamped out copies of each other. But in
terms of potentials we do have similar powers.

What are the powers we can recognize?

1. We are independent individuals. (I use the word SPIRIT --
meaning in the basic essence we are perfect but also we are imperfect
because we are a part of the universal SPIRITUAL force that
encompasses all things good as well as bad. This gives us the power
to consider all things without any exceptions. )

2. We are (not yet) ALL-WISE. Thought the potential to become
all wise is ours.
So WISDOM is also a POTENTIAL part of our nature. Sometimes we call
these KNOWINGS intuitions or "gut feelings." But they ought not to be
accepted as true before they are proved to be true. A truth is
universal and impersonal, and it is the same for everyone at all times
and places.

3. We have a MIND and we use it to think logically -- logic is
essential because, like mathematics, there is only one true answer to
any set of parameters. If we choose the wrong bases we get wrong
answers. so selecting the proper basis is essential. Mind includes
memory, but our memories are not always exact and clear or unshaded by
our "feelings."

4. We "feel." Feelings are many kinds of things, but usually
they are impressions and inexact. They need to be made true by close
examination. The Mind impelled by THE WISDOM SPIRIT does this.

5. Some feeling are called "psychic." Others, are feelings of
the body and its habits.
"Psychic" are our likes and dislikes. They are sometimes rational and
at others they are irrational. The funny thing about our feelings is
that we cherish them and try to defend them even when they are wrong.
Then we can say "the feeling gotcha." At such times we are NOT our
true SELVES -- the SPIRITUAL RATIONAL being.

{I just posted this -- did you see it ? It relates to truth and to
spirit.}

------------------------------

[ On: Joining a "church" or a "society"]


The question really revolves about the idea that joining some group,
society, or church gives a person some special advantage.

Theosophy and the Masters of Wisdom have demonstrated at every step
that it is unsectarian and universal in scope. But this said, one has
to set about to prove it.

Lets start with the proposition that no one owns TRUTH.

History as fact is invariable. Apologists may seek later on try to
explain the motives for choices and events.

Theosophy makes only one claim and that is: it presents in a
condensed form the HISTORY of evolution and of the qualities and
potentials that underlie this continuing event. Every one of its
doctrines is the result of careful investigation by generations of
disciples and scholars

Truth is fact and independent of anyone or anything.

The Masters of WISDOM, by definition, are the most advanced students
and knowers of facts and truths we know of. (S D I 272-3 ) They
claim they were present when the evolutionary thrust began. They also
say we were there but we were in relatively inexperienced stage of our
development. They state that Nature preserves a complete record in
the AKASA of all the events that they offer, so that we may verify
them when we acquire the power to read in the Akasa.

All that we know of Theosophy has come though H P B as Their
Messenger. But, we cannot adopt any specific attitude unless we,
through study, are prepared to explain this fully.

Where do we contact Them?

I say: In our own HIGHER SELF -- (the 6th and 7th Principles
-- ATMA and BUDDHI, present in every human, as well
as everywhere, in every being, in every "atom" in Nature.) It is
also named the MONAD.

Every Monad is potentially a "Higher Self" advancing as an immortal
Pilgrim through the experiences of the whole vast Universal
evolutionary journey. We as one of those Monads are mid-way. Our
minds give access to the Material and to the Spiritual sides of
potential
life. We are therefore endowed as free-willed beings with the capacity
to
choose.

A study of the virtues and the vices and their relation to
universal law as it operates in nature is essential. This is what
Buddha, Krishna, Jesus, Zoroaster, Hermes, Pythagoras, Plato, and all
great Sages and reformers taught and now teach.

The clue is that wisdom and true knowledge always enlarges and
universalizes. Any time one finds restrictions made or claimed, one
can be sure that the claims or statements are not accurate. The
nature of the flaw has to be determined by the student-enquirer.

They, the MASTERS, are Universal. And "They" are the "property" of no
creed or sect.

The (or any) THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY, if it claims to be the sole channel
to the Masters, is in error. No one who proclaims this can prove it.

I would challenge any one to advance written proof of the Masters, or
of H P B, stating, unequivocally, that the THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY is
such a sole channel.

Many statements are made concerning the value of the THEOSOPHICAL
SOCIETY but mere membership or adherence to it gives no one any
special advantages. This will be found to be the basis made for every
sect or creed -- some special favor or advantage -- illogical and
untrue.

We can demonstrate that for ourselves, if we desire to find out by
reading what They have written. Use the MAHATMA LETTERS . Thousands
of articles and books have been published illustrating various
Theosophical "truths," or "Laws," more or less correctly. In the
final analysis every student decides for themselves what is useful and
true.

Theosophy like mathematics has a logic that runs through it and makes
it coherent -- we have to seek that and apply it to anything we read
or study. But we have to do the work using our Higher Principles and
Higher Mind in that work.

If you take my assurance as correct, then you can be making the error
of choosing me as an :"authority." I am not. I merely say you can
find out for yourself. Then, you become the authority for what you
know or have reasoned out. Truth is a common factor, and is shared
and participated in by all -- no exclusions. None of us are in any
better position by mere membership..

Theosophy is self-proving, and the Masters demonstrate this in
everything they have written.
---------------------
Also 2


Look this over and see if it is reasonable.

Best wishes,

Dal

---------------

Here are some statements made by Theosophical doctrines::

------------------------------------------------

SEVEN-FOLD NATURE AND MAN -- " 7 PRINCIPLES"


The universe evolves from the unknown, on seven planes, and in
seven ways in all worlds. And this sevenfold differentiation
causes all the worlds of the universe, and the beings thereon, to
have a septenary constitution.

The divisions of the sevenfold universe may be laid down roughly
as: The Absolute, Spirit, Mind, Matter, Will, Akasa or AEther,
and Life. In place of "the Absolute" we can use the word "Space."
For "Space" is that which ever is, and in which all manifestation
must take place.

Our knowledge begins with differentiation, and all manifested
objects, beings, or powers are only differentiations of the Great
Unknown.

The most that can be said of the Absolute" is that IT
periodically differentiates itself, and periodically withdraws
the differentiated into itself. As to "the Absolute," we can do
no more than say IT IS. None of the Great Teachers of the School
ascribe qualities to "the Absolute," although all qualities exist
in It.

The first differentiation -- speaking metaphysically as to
time -- is Spirit, with which appears Matter and Mind. This is a
Unit, and, called the "Monad." [ In manifestation, it is a
triune Unity, consisting of: ATMA-BUDDHI-MANAS, or, Spirit -
Wisdom - Mind] The Monad is held to be immortal throughout the
great life-cycle, whether Manvantara or Kalpa. It is the basis
for human Individuality.

The term "Akasa," taken from the Sanskrit, is used in place of
AEther, to properly designate that tenuous state of matter which
is now sometimes called "Ether" by modern science. Akasa is
produced from Matter and Spirit.

Will is the force of Spirit in action. And Life (Jiva) is a
resultant of the action of Akasa, moved by Spirit, upon Matter.

But the Matter here spoken of, is not that which is commonly
known as such. It is the Real Matter which is always invisible,
and has sometimes been called Primordial Matter. In the
Brahmanical system it is called "Mulaprakriti" (or "Root
Matter"). And it is sometimes referred to as "Maha-Buddhi." [In
considering this, one may think of an "atom" as essentially an
eternal, individualized field of electro-magnetic Force.
Physical material is condensed in and around it by attraction.
The formation of worlds, and the reincarnation of human Souls,
may be thought of in similar terms, and follow a similar
pattern.]

The ancient teaching always held, as is now admitted by Science,
that we see or perceive only the phenomena but not the essential
nature, cause or being of Matter.

--------------------------

2
SOUL -- EGO -- MIND


Nearly everyone says he has a soul and a body, and there it ends.
What the soul is, and whether it is the real person or whether it
has any powers of its own, are not inquired into, the preachers
usually confining themselves to its salvation or damnation. And
by thus talking of it as something different from oneself, the
people have acquired an underlying notion that they are not souls
because the soul may be lost by them. From this has come about a
tendency to materialism causing men to pay more attention to the
body than to the soul, the latter being left to the tender
mercies of the priest of the Roman Catholics, and among
dissenters the care of it is most frequently put off to the dying
day. But when the true teaching is known it will be seen that the
care of the soul, which is the Self, is a vital matter requiring
attention every day, and not to be deferred without grievous
injury resulting to the whole man, both soul and body....


THE 7-FOLD CLASSIFICATION

H. P. Blavatsky directly from the Great Lodge of
Initiates...places...the old doctrine [of seven-fold Man] before
western civilization. The classification is:

1. The Body, or Rupa. (physical form, molecules, cells)
2. Vitality, or Prana-Jiva. (Life principle)
3. Astral Body, or Linga-Sarira. (electro-magnetic form, atoms and
energies)
4. Animal Soul, or Kama-Rupa (Lower Manas & desires)
5. Human Soul, or Manas. (logic and ratiocination - (Higher manas)
6. Spiritual Soul, or Buddhi. (discrimination, intuition, wisdom)
7. Spirit, or Atma, (HIGHER SELF overshadows the other
6)

The Sanskrit language has a wider sense than the English terms.
This classification stands to this day for all practical
purposes, but it is capable of modification and extension. For
instance, a later arrangement which places ASTRAL BODY second
instead of third in the category does not substantially alter it.
It at once gives an idea of what man is, very different from the
vague description by the words "body and soul," and also boldly
challenges the materialistic conception that mind is the product
of brain, a portion of the body.

No claim is made that these principles were hitherto unknown, for
they were all understood in various ways not only by the Hindus
but by many Europeans. Yet the compact presentation of the
sevenfold constitution of man in intimate connection with the
septenary constitution of a chain of Globes through which the
being evolves, had not been given out...

Considering these constituents in another manner, we would say
that the lower man is a composite being, but in his real nature
is a unity, or immortal being, comprising a trinity of Spirit,
Discernment, and Mind which requires four lower mortal
instruments or vehicles through which to work in matter and
obtain experience from Nature.

This trinity is that called Atma-Buddhi-Manas in Sanskrit,
difficult terms to render in English. Atma is Spirit, Buddhi is
the highest power of intellection, that which discerns and
judges, and Manas is Mind. This threefold collection is the real
man; and beyond doubt the doctrine is the origin of the
theological one of the trinity of Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.
The four lower instruments or vehicles are shown in this table:

Real Man is Triune (3) -- :

Atma,
Buddhi,
Manas,


Lower Vehicles are 4 -- :

* The Passions and Desires,
* Life Principle,
* Astral Body,
* Physical Body.


These four lower material constituents are transitory and subject
to disintegration in themselves as well as to separation from
each other. When the hour arrives for their separation to begin,
the combination can no longer be kept up, the physical body dies,
the atoms of which each of the four is composed begin to separate
from each other, and the whole collection being disjointed is no
longer fit for one as an instrument for the real man.


DEATH of the PHYSICAL

This is what is called "death" among us mortals, but it is not
death for the real man because he is deathless, persistent,
immortal. He is therefore called the Triad, or indestructible
trinity, while they are known as the Quaternary or mortal four.

This quaternary or lower man is a product of cosmic or physical
laws and substance. It has been evolved during a lapse of ages,
like any other physical thing, from cosmic substance, and is
therefore subject to physical, physiological, and psychical laws
which govern the race of man as a whole.

Hence its period of possible continuance can be calculated just
as the limit of tensile strain among the metals used in bridge
building can be deduced by the engineer. Any one collection in
the form of man made up of these constituents is therefore
limited in duration by the laws of the evolutionary period in
which it exists. Just now, that is generally seventy to one
hundred years, but its possible duration is longer. Thus there
are in history instances where ordinary persons have lived to be
two hundred years of age; and by a knowledge of the occult laws
of nature the possible limit of duration may be extended nearly
to four hundred years.


* THE VISIBLE PHYSICAL MAN IS:
*
* Brain, Nerves, Blood, Bones, Lymph, Muscles, Organs of
Sensation and Action, and Skin.

*
* THE UNSEEN PHYSICAL MAN IS:
*
* Astral Body, Passions and Desires, Life Principle (called
prana or jiva).
*

It will be seen that the physical part of our nature is thus
extended to a second department which, though invisible to the
physical eye, is nevertheless material and subject to decay.


REAL AND UNREAL

Because people in general have been in the habit of admitting to
be real only what they can see with the physical eye, they have
at last come to suppose that the unseen is neither real nor
material. But they forgot that even on the earth plane noxious
gases are invisible though real and powerfully material, and that
water may exist in the air held suspended and invisible until
conditions alter and cause its precipitation.


Let us recapitulate before going into details. The Real Man is
the trinity of Atma-Buddhi-Manas, or Spirit and Mind, and he uses
certain agents and instruments to get in touch with nature in
order to know himself.

These instruments and agents are found in the lower Four -- or
the Quaternary -- each principle in which category is of itself
an instrument for the particular experience belonging to its own
field, the body being the lowest, least important, and most
transitory of the whole series.

For when we arrive at the body on the way down from the Higher
Mind, it can be shown that all of its organs are in themselves
senseless and useless when deprived of the man within.

Sight, hearing, touch, taste, and smelling do not pertain to the
body but to the second unseen physical man, the real organs for
the exercise of those powers being in the ASTRAL BODY, and those
in the physical body being but the mechanical outer instruments
for making the coordination between nature and the real organs
inside.

-------------------------


-----Original Message-----
From: t prin
Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2003 6:58 PM
To:
Subject: Thoughts/Feelings

Hi,

Thoughts and feelings shape our world BUT I think/feel these matters
have a instinct that's worth looking at.

The instinct that interests me is the compulsion to "believe"
(think/feel) that so much of what goes on in our hearts and minds are
issues to flight/fight about. It's as if instinct itself having
been/being so useful to survival itself has a degree of compulsion to
bleed into other areas which are, maybe, not entirely so useful to
consider as matters of fight or flight.

This attitude and/or behavior as an instinctual compulsion I
think/feel causes mankind a great deal of turmoil/upset AND truth be
told who would be happy (or, learning) if we were all the exactly
same and/or each and every one thought/felt (believed) the same about
each and every single little thing.

In truth without diversity it
would be a "Stepford World" and that would be not only unnatural BUT
just so gosh darned boring - at that point we might as well have no-
thing and mirror.

T