Theos-Talk Archives (December 2002 Message tt00323)

Fair go, Wry!!! I have been on this list for a year
and a half now and the words that come from Paul's
email server are probably the most sensible I have
ever read. I think that all Paul is trying to say is
to have a discussion/argument about a topic but do it
in a way where your tone is not negative or overly
aggressive. This was something I found myself doing
when good ol' Muehlman was around and, after my own
negative/aggressive attitude was pointed out by
others, I have gone to great lengths to ensure my
posts were not in this vain. Nobody is out to get you
so there is no need for aggression. Kindly, subtlety
and diplomatically, Mic.


--- wry <wry1111@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Hi Paul.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <kpauljohnson@yahoo.com>
> To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, December 08, 2002 5:17 AM
> Subject: Theos-World 4th Way lists, tension,
> relaxation
> 
> 
> > Dear Wry and everyone,
> >
> > There are quite a few yahoo groups devoted to
> Fourth Way theory and
> practice, two of which I have experienced. One was
> extremely unpleasant,
> the other perhaps the most nurturing and stimulating
> yahoo group I've ever
> witnessed. It seems to me truly a waste of time and
> energy to hope or
> expect that theos-talk become such a list; even more
> a waste to reprimand
> people here for not being up to the standards of
> such a list.
> 
> Where do you get the idea that I am trying to turn
> this into what you call a
> "fourth way" list?" I will be very interested to
> hear how you got to this.
> What are you even talking about? But if you know of
> a good "fourth way"
> list, please put it out here and I will try it. Are
> you and the way you
> handle material an example of the kind of people I
> will find on such a
> list.?
> 
> >That seems ironic from an exponent of a tradition
> which aims to develop
> discrimination to help avoid wasting one's time and
> energy.
> >
> 
> You seem to think I am wasting my time and energy.
> 
> > I certainly wouldn't introduce a chatty thread on
> recent books read on
> that Fourth Way list.>
> 
> Maybe you should do so. What's good enough for us
> folks here should be good
> enough for them.
> 
> >There is a tension in the atmosphere that is quite
> positive, a keen
> attentiveness to one another's efforts.>
> 
> I've seen some fourth way lists. They are kind of
> stupid. This list is
> better.
> 
> >The kind of relaxation I've tried to induce here
> would not be appropriate
> there. But Wry, the kind of tension you are
> bringing to this list seems
> inappropriate to at least an equal degree.>
> 
> The tension you feel is your own and you are
> responsible for it.
> 
> > Theos-talk has in my observation often been an
> extremely tense place, and
> the recent battles between the dueling webmasters
> were just a continuation
> of that tradition.
> 
> Just try to observe yourself and I will do the same.
> 
> >I don't apologize for introducing a lighter note
> and trying to humanize the
> atmosphere some. If the result is offensive to
> anyone, I'd urge you to go
> to the no mail option. Cannot imagine anyone
> deliberately choosing to
> receive individual emails on a list as active as
> this.>
> 
> A very sucessful lighter note was already
> introduced. You seem to have
> little sense of preportion. In any case, my message
> wasn't about "YOU" or
> intended to be a criticism of "YOU." You are too
> wrapped up. The other
> message, "To whom it may concern," though, you can
> interpret to your fancy.
> 
> > The main difference between the two Fourth Way
> yahoo groups is the
> presence or absence of what was been called Work
> Personality.
> 
> Why do you capitolize these words, work personality?
> Something is off about
> the way you handle material.
> 
> >The kind of finger-wagging superiority that some
> Fourth Way students adopt
> as a persona is given free reign on one of those
> groups, and is absent from
> the other.>
> 
> This is your own subjective experience. No one even
> knows what you are
> talking about. It is pouring from the empty into the
> void to try to
> translate it to us here with a few mechanical words.
> I am not a member of
> any Gurdjieff community, though I know many people
> from many different
> Gurdjieff and other spiritual communities, which I
> have researched while
> making a study of hypnotism and spiritual
> pyramiding, and, generally
> speaking, Gurdjieffians are authoritarian,
> misguided, ignorant, holding an
> image about themselves and their so called "work",
> and not very spiritually
> advanced, AND one major Gurdjieff group which is of
> a Jungian bent is, in my
> opinion, doing certain interesting, but, in my
> opinion, immoral experimental
> projects which are doing GREAT damage to humanity. I
> intend to leave a
> message about this in the future, when the time is
> appropriate, which should
> be VERY interesting to the members of the
> Theosophical Organization. I have
> researched contemporary Gurdjieff groups as well as
> many other kinds of
> spiritual groups, and am very probably more
> qualified and capable to speak
> of the teaching of Gurdjieff then are you and maybe
> even anyone, but of
> course, this is just my own opinion. Whatever the
> case, the proof will be in
> the pudding. I am not on here as a Gurdjieffian, but
> simply as an
> intelligent person. Actually, I do own seven copies
> of "All and Everything,"
> as it is one of the best books I have ever read, and
> I pick up copies when I
> see them, as someday, if I ever get the time, I may
> start a reading group
> in my local area.
> 
> > Lest anyone here reach the conclusion that such a
> persona is unanimous
> among Fourth Way practitioners, I can testify to
> having encountered several
> who are warm, down to earth, and kind.>
> 
> 
> Who even cares about your "testimony," and why are
> you making this message?
> It is pointless, as far as I can tell. I am not
> stopping anybody from making
> messages about anything. Do what is meaningful to
> you and I will do the
> same. My messages are, with great love, specifically
> tailored, for this
> theosophy list. Sincerely and best wishes, Wry.
> 
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Paul
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 


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