Theos-Talk Archives (December 2002 Message tt00302)

Hi Paul.
----- Original Message -----
From: <kpauljohnson@yahoo.com>
To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 08, 2002 5:17 AM
Subject: Theos-World 4th Way lists, tension, relaxation


> Dear Wry and everyone,
>
> There are quite a few yahoo groups devoted to Fourth Way theory and
practice, two of which I have experienced. One was extremely unpleasant,
the other perhaps the most nurturing and stimulating yahoo group I've ever
witnessed. It seems to me truly a waste of time and energy to hope or
expect that theos-talk become such a list; even more a waste to reprimand
people here for not being up to the standards of such a list.

Where do you get the idea that I am trying to turn this into what you call a
"fourth way" list?" I will be very interested to hear how you got to this.
What are you even talking about? But if you know of a good "fourth way"
list, please put it out here and I will try it. Are you and the way you
handle material an example of the kind of people I will find on such a
list.?

>That seems ironic from an exponent of a tradition which aims to develop
discrimination to help avoid wasting one's time and energy.
>

You seem to think I am wasting my time and energy.

> I certainly wouldn't introduce a chatty thread on recent books read on
that Fourth Way list.>

Maybe you should do so. What's good enough for us folks here should be good
enough for them.

>There is a tension in the atmosphere that is quite positive, a keen
attentiveness to one another's efforts.>

I've seen some fourth way lists. They are kind of stupid. This list is
better.

>The kind of relaxation I've tried to induce here would not be appropriate
there. But Wry, the kind of tension you are bringing to this list seems
inappropriate to at least an equal degree.>

The tension you feel is your own and you are responsible for it.

> Theos-talk has in my observation often been an extremely tense place, and
the recent battles between the dueling webmasters were just a continuation
of that tradition.

Just try to observe yourself and I will do the same.

>I don't apologize for introducing a lighter note and trying to humanize the
atmosphere some. If the result is offensive to anyone, I'd urge you to go
to the no mail option. Cannot imagine anyone deliberately choosing to
receive individual emails on a list as active as this.>

A very sucessful lighter note was already introduced. You seem to have
little sense of preportion. In any case, my message wasn't about "YOU" or
intended to be a criticism of "YOU." You are too wrapped up. The other
message, "To whom it may concern," though, you can interpret to your fancy.

> The main difference between the two Fourth Way yahoo groups is the
presence or absence of what was been called Work Personality.

Why do you capitolize these words, work personality? Something is off about
the way you handle material.

>The kind of finger-wagging superiority that some Fourth Way students adopt
as a persona is given free reign on one of those groups, and is absent from
the other.>

This is your own subjective experience. No one even knows what you are
talking about. It is pouring from the empty into the void to try to
translate it to us here with a few mechanical words. I am not a member of
any Gurdjieff community, though I know many people from many different
Gurdjieff and other spiritual communities, which I have researched while
making a study of hypnotism and spiritual pyramiding, and, generally
speaking, Gurdjieffians are authoritarian, misguided, ignorant, holding an
image about themselves and their so called "work", and not very spiritually
advanced, AND one major Gurdjieff group which is of a Jungian bent is, in my
opinion, doing certain interesting, but, in my opinion, immoral experimental
projects which are doing GREAT damage to humanity. I intend to leave a
message about this in the future, when the time is appropriate, which should
be VERY interesting to the members of the Theosophical Organization. I have
researched contemporary Gurdjieff groups as well as many other kinds of
spiritual groups, and am very probably more qualified and capable to speak
of the teaching of Gurdjieff then are you and maybe even anyone, but of
course, this is just my own opinion. Whatever the case, the proof will be in
the pudding. I am not on here as a Gurdjieffian, but simply as an
intelligent person. Actually, I do own seven copies of "All and Everything,"
as it is one of the best books I have ever read, and I pick up copies when I
see them, as someday, if I ever get the time, I may start a reading group
in my local area.

> Lest anyone here reach the conclusion that such a persona is unanimous
among Fourth Way practitioners, I can testify to having encountered several
who are warm, down to earth, and kind.>


Who even cares about your "testimony," and why are you making this message?
It is pointless, as far as I can tell. I am not stopping anybody from making
messages about anything. Do what is meaningful to you and I will do the
same. My messages are, with great love, specifically tailored, for this
theosophy list. Sincerely and best wishes, Wry.

> Cheers,
>
> Paul
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>