Theos-Talk Archives (February 2002 Message tt00212)

<<<<<<<<<<<Dear Dallas, I agree, but "well acquainted" doesn't mean that she is right about everything. She does, in fact, have a few errors
and we are all going to have to accept that fact.
DTB NO ARGUMENTS. SHE SAY THAT OF HER WORKS TOO. But I do not known enough to presume to tell when and how she may have erred. Others have done exactly that and they have presumed.>>>>>

JERRY: Look at the 2nd para under "Nadis" on page 21 of INNER TEACHINGS and it is very plain to anyone that she is referring to chakras here, not nadis (in this para she calls them "plexus" which is a clear reference to chakras, not nadis). This is just one example.

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<<<Her job as I see it, was to unify and make sense of a mélange that was (and still is from the
purely materialistic point of view very CHAOTIC.) Every religion, philosophy or science starts with a basis. If that basis is common (as she claims) then the similarities are to be expected.>>>

JERRY: For "basis" I would say "assumption." Are the initial assumptions of the world's religions the same? I don't think so, as some posit a creative God while others do not. Some posit reincarnation, and others not, etc. Probably all emphasize the need for love and compassion, though. I am still wondering, myself, if such a unification is possible.

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<<<<I would be very happy if eventually, I can develop the ability to find, or create, a "string" such as she did, to bind those flowers. So to me there is as base the "flowers of similitude,"
the string of laws and development that binds them, and finally the bouquet is made presentable for all to use and feel inspired from.>>>

JERRY: Yes, in that she was showed genius.

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<<<DTB From the writings of G de P I see his has deeply imbibed from Theosophy, The SECRET DOCTRINE etc... but his presentation is for me marred when at times he speaks down to people telling them that he is "advanced" or that "they" wont understand.>>>

JERRY: Yeah, but maybe he was a bit advanced. Is that possible. 

<<<<I fault hi for this as the same UNIVERSAL SPIRIT is common to each of us and is in fact our HIGHER SELF. Everyone ought to be encouraged to rise to their highest potential. No one ought to
be discouraged. >>>

JERRY: OK, but "universal spirit" is ineffable and cannot be put into words, and most people are unaware of its commonality. In what way did he discourage people?

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DTB The SECRET DOCTRINE starts with indeterminacy and chaos theory in the materials to be used for a new manifestation. Quantum theory comes into play when the immortal Egos and the
Divine Instructors, the Cosmocratores and the "Builders" enter the scene to make sense out of that chaos. Those are said to be human intelligences which have risen to th level of world and universal perceptions to serve Nature (the Universe) as her supervisors and assistants in the grand project of reconstruction. Such reconstruction is devised for the education
and progress of all the milliards of component of Nature -- How else to explain it ?

JERRY: I agree. But you seem to be admitting that the foundation of manifestation (order) is probability (chaos). I have been trying to say that these two always have to go together, like spirit and matter. Order and cosmos and laws etc etc all have to do with conditional manifested existence, as does evolution. Orderly manifestation, alias cosmos, springs up from chaos, and eventually returns to it. Thus all manifestion, including the laws that govern it, are relative and conditional, and that is all that I have been trying to say.

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<<<Indeterminacy is seen only if we consider the hosts of Monads of lesser experience, who are still to develop self-consciousness into a concentrating and focusing field for self-development.
Then determinacy with self-conscious concern and a care for others arises as a determining factor. Pushing that still further the study of the Universe becomes the program and curriculum of every immortal Pilgrim.>>>>

JERRY: It is here where we have some disagreement. You seem to be looking at evolution as a linear progression beginning with indeterminancy and reaching, at some point, determinancy. I can't accept that idea. At every second throughout duration, both order and chaos exist together and function together. Also, I don't believe that the "eternal pilgrim" is anything more than maya itself.

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<<<Once that is achieved the laws of mass action, indeterminacy, and quantum mechanics become a general observational position, It is much like the man on the observation terrace of the Empire State Building, looking down at people and vehicles, might wonder at their seemingly intelligent stopping, starting and avoidances --
if he is not familiar with traffic systems and symbols, or fails to see the patterns that a vast diversity of individuals accept, and voluntarily impose on themselves, for the sake of communal
safety and progress.>>>

JERRY: I believe that such an outlook or observation is possible from beginning to end of any manvantara. Those traffic patterns are statistically predictable, but the traffic pattern of any one person is not. 

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<<<Our Science, looking speculatively at the atoms, molecules and cells -- as the building blocks of matter used in all beings, may wonder at their degree of intelligence, but do not yet dare to
entirely credit them with consciousness and the ability to voluntarily follow patterns of force which they perceive, each at their own level, in cooperation with all the rest.>>>

JERRY: They are getting there, though. Symbiosis is slowly replacing the survival of the fittest. As to consciousness, science can't even define it.

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<<<<Theosophy draws our attention to the cooperative aspect of nature. I think we need to trust it that far, or "evolution" would have no real discernable meaning. Our presence here under the materialistic concept is illogical -- but others may hold
other views which when put together will still not entirely meld. In The SECRET DOCTRINE Vol. I p 181 we are given a brief view of the three main evolutionary streams of forces that are forever
intertwined as the 3 snakes of the Caduceus are.>>>

JERRY: Agreed, but it is important to remember that all three evolutionary streams are mayavic. They do not lead to the creation of any real permanent entities or "eternal pilgrims."

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<<<That H P B went to Tibet is not material to the age-old Theosophical philosophy that emanates from the Trans-Himalayan Adepts. They say she did. She says she did. Arguments are for what reason ?>>>

JERRY: The way I see it, either she went to them or they came to her, because somehow she did gain some insight into Mahayana Buddhism.

Jerry S.
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