Theos-Talk Archives (January 2002 Message tt00268)

Dear M S

Here are some more quick answers below.

Sorry for the delay.

Dal

==============================

-----Original Message-----
From: Morten Sufilight [mailto:teosophy@mail1.stofanet.dk]
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2002 1:05 PM
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Theos-World re: PARABRAHM .......and the works...

Hi Dallas and all of you,

Thank you for your answer.

I regret, that I not more often uses '...' and the like around
different words in my emails. You see, a lot of them has more
than one meaning. and in your below answer - you however in a
very sweet manner interpret a lot of them - very litterally - and
ín some few case also sort of materialistic. I will seek to do
better. ( Have you ever familiarized your selves with the
following website: http://www.advaita-vedanta.org - and
http://www.advaita-vedanta.org/avhp/transliteration.html - Here
the value of dead-letter thinking is being put down - at least to
a certain degree.) But to some - the valuable teachings of
Raja-Yoga would be important to study - at first.


As long as we can agree on the one right below, then I think
there is hope for you to understand my view.

Dallas wrote:

"Observation and deep thought would tend to show that
PARABRAHM never acts. it does contain the POTENTIALITY of every
action. It is the source of all being, of all law, of all
wisdom. It does not create anything, but periodically Universes
manifest, and eventually they die and their experience is rolled
back into the Unmanifest (Parabrahm). Later, under ITS immutable
LAW that we call KARMA, all components roll out again and a fresh
Universe (out of the old materials now placed in fresh
configurations according to their inherent Karma) are formed."

Answer from Sufilight:


***Yes, I agree on the most, a very important statement. Dallas.
But does these special kind of 'universes' (so to speak) 'roll
out again' ??
No, Dallas. The use of the word 'again' - in english - must be
kind of wrong. Because the 'universes' are not the 'sameones'.
And maybe even 'time' or 'universes' (when we seek to transcend -
the word 'being' or 'existence') are not a part of the
perspective. My view, taken from my knowledge and inner
experiences, is, that ParaBrahman certainly has more up the
'sleaves' than - the use of 'time' and 'universes' - and even
'maya'. (There is more to it than 'time' and 'universes' - you
have my word for that - for what it is worth. I know, that some
would say - but how can there be more ? But they will learn.) I
certainly hope - you would appreciate such a ParaBrahman. Well
do'nt you do that ??
The law - in use here - the law of analogy, this law it is
possible to transcend.
The law of analogy - of course has its limitations.***


======================================


DTB	UNIVERSAL IS UNIVERSAL. SPIRIT IS SPIRIT.

There are no DIVISIONS there.

We may assume and create mentally divisions and grads because we
look at spiritual things with material eyes, and matter always
sees differences and divisions.

But SPIRITUAL THINGS are undivided.

Your ATMA is also my ATMA. and is also the ATMA of a BUDDHA or a
Dhyan Chohan.

If PARABRAHM and the ABSOLUTE are "beyond spirit, it is because
when this period of limited evolution we call a MANVANTARA,
eventually ends, everything MATERIAL will be resolved back into
the ONE SPIRIT.

But, as said. [ H P B Articles, III, p. 265 ] The Karma of each
INDIVIDUALITY will never be lost or erased. When a new
MANVANTARA EMERGES, the Karma of those INDIVIDUALITIES being
persistent, will cause them to re-emerge and resume their
individual Pilgrimage

===========================================


"I would rather say that it is the parent and the GUARDIAN of the
LAWS and LAW. It is ever-present, but at no time does it ever
interfere with the free-will of any of its component parts. it
is there. but it refrains from acting. It encourages by its
presence, the independent choices of it component Monads, and, to
elevate their aim towards universal and impersonal SPIRITUAL
KNOWLEDGE and, thus, engage in the daily practice of benevolence
and brotherhood."


Answer from Sufilight:
***Yes I agree on this - if I read it correctly.***


Dallas wrote:
"One must always remember that we think and speak from the point
of view of the SPIRITUAL Monad (which is our HIGHER MIND)."

Answer from Sufilight:
***Well. I don't think 'always' is true Dallas. There are higher
levels. The Monad as defined above the Atma - is as far as I
remember HPB - the second Logos. And the first Logos and the
ParaBrahman is beyond that Monad. (But maybe that is just my
Alice A. Bailey input, which according to some are on the wrong
track) - Maybe 'Notes on the Bhagavad Gita' by Subba T. Row has
something to offer here too.***

=========================================

DTB	Alice Bailey followed H P B and produced her own views,
attributing them to Dawa Khool -- but I see those as claims that
have to be verified as LOGICAL and TRUE. Just as H P B always
does -- she gives us the derivations and the demonstrations and
makes us free to use them. She treats us always as brother
immortals and never as ignoramuses.

The UNIVERSAL MONAD is ATMA and MAHA-BUDDHI intertwined and
inseparable.

The Logoi have been discussed earlier: Logos = WORD. To frame a
WORD there has to be a UNIVERSAL MIND. The Mind has to have
MEMORY. it also has to have MATERIAL on and in which to work.
The PLAN is an embryo of what WILL BE, in all its complexity.
The 3 Logoi are progressive developments of the reestablishment
of the eternal plan when a new cycle of LIFE begins under
UNIVERSAL KARMA. LAW always prevails and rules all. The LOGOI
are NOT beings. They are Powers and Forces that work in harmony
and cause all movement to be harmonious. The represent the
development of the PLAN in successive stages. See S D I it is
all there.

===========================================


Dallas wrote:
"But I would think it a grave mistake to believe that Parabrahm
is
like a "Personal God," which is said by priests to do things
according to "His" arbitrary whim."

Answer from Sufilight:
***I agree. And if some gets the idea, that I thought otherwise
in my pervious statements - it is because they read my - words -
too litteral. I guess that you understood this Dallas, but was
making a point, - that I could be misunderstood. And thank you
for that. (take for instance my use of the word 'beyond' in stead
of >>BEYOND<< (i.e. transcended) as HPB problably would have done
it.***

Dallas wrote:
"We think of Parabrahm as Truth, as Perfection, as Omnipotence
which never acts directly, but only through its independent and
free-willed components -- the Monads."

Answer from Sufilight:
***Yes Dallas. A good point I think.
But, as I see it, - like this: ParaBrahman 'can' with its
'transcended' 'will' make this entire universe disappear on all
the 7 levels of development (and Maya - superficial reality) -
and agreed without acting - in any sense of analogy - which even
a Master or Dhyan Chohan could dream of ! (And please don't read
this last sentence dead-letter litterally - try the 7 keys of HPB
on this - all right ?). And this is a true paradoks - a true
mystery to the ignorant readers !***

====================================

DTB	The invariable rule is that the limits of manifestation
disappear. The EFFECTS of living are then MEDITATED UPON and
built into THE ONE CONSCIOUSNESS And that means an increment in
UNDERSTANDING. We can never fully describe the invisible, the
indescribable and the imponderable from the point of view of our
limited experience in these bodies we now use.

====================================





Dallas presented:
"A more real truth is, that There is only ParaBrahman - as HPB
states : "Omnipresent", "Unspeakable" "Unthinkable". So this
"reincarnating forever" buisness - you have going Dallas -
'forget' that for a while, - don't even think - "transcend
thinking"- (i.e. THINKING) then you will get enlightened and
understand. ParaBrahman is immense - please don't underestimate
ParaBrahman.

===================================

DTB You are right Parabrahm ought not to be underestimated. But
the fact we can THINK about it and its nature, implies that a
portion of IT is resident within each one of us and forms the
basis for Universal Brotherhood. It also provides the basis for
our thinking in such a high spiritual manner -- it is another
proof of the inner HIGHER SELF in each one of us."***

Answer from Sufilight:
***I would rethink - and remeditate that statement. Because - you
do not understand what I am getting at in the above. - Well that
is what I understand from your answer. I wouldn't fall so low as
to THINK - on matters like ParaBrahman - if I could avoid it, --
or if it was necessary to do it - for altruistic reasons - I
would, -- well while doing my best. I would trascend THINKing -
and go beyond THINKing. (No words about 'fat' here please.)***

=================================

DTB	Our Mind here and now is only a reflection of the MANAS that
is an indissoluble part of the eternal MONAD. We could not hold
this discussion unless the TRANSCENDENT aspect of the Mind was in
continual touch with its parent MAHAT.

=================================


Answer from Sufilight:
***The Voice of Silence part - I didn't get. Maybe if you could
qoute (and even comment - if necessary) the passages - it could
help.

>From the Bhagavad Gita [ THE SONG CELESTIAL ] of Sir Edwin
Arnold - which HPB is said to love very much:

"The worlds, Arjuna!- even Brahma's world-
Roll back again from Death to Life's unrest;
But they, O Kunti's Son! that reach to Me,
Taste birth no more. If ye know Brahma's Day
Which is a thousand Yugas; if ye know
The thousand Yugas making Brahma's Night,
Then know ye Day and Night as He doth know!
When that vast Dawn doth break, th' Invisible
Is brought anew into the Visible;
When that deep Night doth darken, all which is
Fades back again to Him Who sent it forth;
Yea! this vast company of living things-
Again and yet again produced- expires
At Brahma's Nightfall; and, at Brahma's Dawn,
Riseth, without its will, to life new-born.
But- higher, deeper, innermost- abides
Another Life, not like the life of sense,
Escaping sight, unchanging. This endures
When all created things have passed away;
This is that Life named the Unmanifest,
The Infinite! the All! the Uttermost.
Thither arriving none return. That Life
Is Mine, and I am there! And, Prince! by faith
Which wanders not, there is a way to come
Thither. I, the PURUSHA, I Who spread
The Universe around me- in Whom dwell
All living Things- may so be reached and seen!"

Comment on the above:


Now let us reach ParaBrahman - i.e. the esoteric PURUSHA (not the
litteral one) - and make no rebrith again - ever !
As Bhagavad Gita (and a great number of other translations) in
the above states :
"The worlds, Arjuna!- even Brahma's world-
Roll back again from Death to Life's unrest;
But they, O Kunti's Son! that reach to Me,
Taste birth no more."


And my experience states the same - and then I 'feel' quite
comfortable. (I think it is from the level of the universal
Monad - the 2. Logos, that the 'worlds' 'roll out' (or 'down')
and 'back').
What do you think Dallas ??***

========================================

DTB	There are two types of rebirth.

1.	obligatory --such as our present lives enmeshed in our Karma,
and

2.	Optional and selected by the PERFECTLY ENLIGHTENED ONE, who as
a divine immaculate and completely WISE and FREE-WILLED SAGE or
AVATAR can CHOOSE because of his COMPASSION to incarnate for the
sake of those who would benefit from his wisdom an presence.

Sri Krishna for instance states: I AM SEATED IN THE HEARTS OF
ALL BEINGS."

"I AM THE BEGINNING, THE MIDDLE, AND THE END OF ALL EXISTENT
THINGS."

There is an invariable rule in occultism, and that is that the
wiser always sacrifice themselves for the benefit of the ignorant
brothers that continually surround them.

The SPIRIT within each of us, has very evidently sacrificed
itself and its ease and bliss, for the benefit our present very
limited and material incarnation Every Human Being has a DIVINE
INCARNATION ( the MONAD ) seated in its own heart. Why is it we
do not recognize this ?


=================================================

feel free to do your best - all of you.

from
Sufilight




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