Theos-Talk Archives (January 2002 Message tt00269)

Hi Dallas and all of you,

Thanks for your answer Dallas.
In my answer I have deleted some of your answering - just to cut the mail shorter.
I can agree on some of the below answers of yours, but not all of them, because you are certain place misunderstanding, what I am getting at.
I will recommend, that you read the book "The Commanding Self" by the Afghan esoterical sufi - Idries Shah. His choice of words are as I see it close to theosophical terminology - one just substitute the word 'sufi' with 'theosophy' - and see where one gets in his books.
To me he just enhances the teachings on theosophy.

The term 'learning how to learn' seems important. There are several methodsof learning - i.e. absorbing theosophical or wisdom teachings. The ones you seem to claim important in the below are not the only ones.

>>>You wrote as an answer:

DTB WISDOM does not alter with age if it is true. For instance,
> mathematics is the same now as 10,000 year or 1,000,000 years
> ago.
<<<

The below is an anser to just that:
Wisdom doesn't alter with age if it is true ? Yes and NO. During time it DOALTER in the FORM it is presented in to the new seeker of wisdom. And it can be presented in different forms. (Some of them you know of, and others not. Well I claim that it is so.) Even HPB states something on this in - what some calls the beloved Secret Doctrine. I bet you have heard that one before Dallas. Try my Alice A. Bailey article at http://home1.stofanet.dk/global-teosophy/Blavatsky_versus_Alice_Bailey%20.htm - it could help on this.

The wise ones - always helps people if it is possible. BUT - and I say BUT,it is not always so, that the one who gets the help - knows, that the helphas come.
The first thing the new student of wisdom should learn is - that the student are not interested in learning (wisdom), - and that even so if the new seeker claims it is so ! Because if the new seeker was really interested, then the new seeker would know what to do. They new seeker claims to know, what he or she needs top be learned - and that is often the wrong attitude.
One should prepare one self so that one is ready to meet a teacher, and so that teacher could learn one something. But without a basic preparation andfamiliarizing with the teachings of wisdom, then the teacher can't help much or even maybe not at all. By reading 1000 books wisdom (Secret Doctrine or not !)without at all - doing so to speak 'mental workout' - one gets nowhere - and are not prepared. And books are even not everything - when preparing.
The wise ones give others teaching - and they get some tutoring in return. So it is.
Sometimes the wise ones acts like stupids - and sometimes it is because they act as decoys, so to make the seekers interested properly in wisdom at the right time and the right place - and not the opposite way around.
In a certain sense we all here at theos-talk acts as decoys - even if we are aware of it or not.
The idea with a decoy can be, that some people - meet some friends the sameday. They would have meet these very important friends - if it havn't beenfor the decoy !!
Masters are not just small angels poping up when they have something wise to say or an ESP act to perform. They often use a physical body, and meet people, who are not really aware of who they are, because they hide their auras for the ignorant public !! They are real. ( I know some of you think I am silly making a claim on this issue. But seek and you will find. Or continue to be ignorant. Sweet thoughts.)
It is not always so much what people write here at theos-talk or elsewhere on their Planets of any kind. It is also often important how - people reactto the written material. If they treat it as a Bible (for instance - all the material of HPB's), or if they 'lit' a match to it, or if they laugh at it, or act in any other manner.
It is quite interesting, that small dots on a screen can have such an effect on those reading them, and that their reaction on them - (i.e. the dots) - can be so important in forming a better life (or even the opposite) for them in the future - (or as some perhaps will say - 'in the NOW of be-ing-ness').
Now Dallas I am not saying that you are a new student. I am just trying to do my best making a point on your below answers.

A saying:
It is better to be a young fool than an old one. The young fool changes more easily than the old fool.

It is maybe not so important, to ask what Theosophy is. More important it seems is to ask - what do you think Theosophy is ? And are you right ?
And do you know everything already - or is there something you could have missed, not knowing - your self, what it is ?
It is questions like that, that make me think, that you did'nt understand what I was getting at, when you answered the above.

It seems obvoius, that there are other books with a use of different words,which are of a date later than the for instance the 1950's, which have a content, which could lead the seeker of wisdom on the path towards enlightenment. Is it not obvious - or is it just a strange kind of sweet narrowmindedness ?

On the rest of your answer I have stated very shortly, on agreement or disagreement - using ###.

Feel free to do different - than you are doing.

from Sufilight





----- Original Message ----- 
From: <dalval14@earthlink.net>
To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 2:12 PM
Subject: RE: Theos-World RE: On authority....


> Friday, January 18, 2002
> 
> Dear Friend:
> 
> Excuse this late response, please read some Notes below.
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> 
> Dal
> 
> ====================================
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: M S
> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2002 1:00 PM
> To:
> Subject: RE: On authority....
> 
> 
> 
> HI Dallas and all of you,
> 
> Thank you for you interesting answer.
> My comments are in the Below - using ***.
> 
> from Sufilight
> 
> 
> 
> =====================================
> 
> Answers and observations to
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <dalval14@earthlink.net>
> To: "
> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2002 2:54 PM
> Subject: Theos-World RE: On authority....
> 
> 
> Saturday, January 12, 2002
> 
> 
> Dear Friend:
> 
> THEOSOPHY is as I understand it a condensed report on the state
> of the Universe and of Man.
> 
> To a large extent it is HISTORY.
> 
> ***Yes. But the books of HPB and others on Theosophy are very
> old - and often not/ or more than one time not - the best
> material for new seekers of wisdom - to read anymore. Especially
> those reading by the dead-letter yet, (i.e. not using the 7
> keys). That is my view Dallas.***
> 
> ==============================================
> 
> DTB WISDOM does not alter with age if it is true. For instance,
> mathematics is the same now as 10,000 year or 1,000,000 years
> ago.

###You misunderstand my view in the above.###
> 
> H P B issued the Message of Theosophy. It is the AGE-OLD message
> of tested truth. It invites us all to test it as hard as
> possible. Is it TRUE ? Only we, each of us, can determine that.
> We constantly meet with those who are obviously wiser than we
> are. How are we to consider them? THEY ARE IDENTICAL WITH US IN
> SPIRITUAL MAKE-UP. -- They have an immortal SOUL, just as we
> have. They are our Brother "pilgrims," perhaps a little
> advanced. If they are TRULY WISE ONES they will not impose on
> us, nor will they try to tell us how to do things. They will
> speak to us of the principles and the laws of nature and suggest
> what we test and apply them if we are satisfied. They will never
> ask us to satisfy them. They will always give us our freedom to
> make our own decisions, and then, to act as we decide. They know
> and practise the rule: "Each Immortal Pilgrim has to make their
> own choices freely." SOUL IMMORTALITY is the Key to every aspect
> of our lives, as we advance towards the Supreme Perfection that
> our many lives lead us to expect.

###I can hardly agree with that sort of narrowminded view in the above. Theinitiates and the Masters use a lot of different methods - depending on how one acts -and where one are on the spiritual latter of development. And that also goes for some of those in physical incarnation. Only the ignorant ones think differently.###
> 
> Our improvement is then shared by us wit the many small
> "life-atoms" which we use in our bodies, and which after many
> cycle of incarnation and experience will in some future
> Manifestation become MEN-SOULS in their turn. Theosophy makes us
> look at all beings as our brothers because regardless of their
> intelligence, they are immortals identical with us in basics.

###It can do that. But others do act different towards Theosophy. Some havn't heard of it - and this is the best for them, in this life. we have to develop a global perspective as HPB says. I sadly forget this sometimes.###
> 
> Later writers (including me) give our interpretations or opinions
> concerning it. At best, we can point to the ORIGINALS and
> recommend that students use those, because they are the best and
> most original expressions of impartial and universal TRUTH --
> which is : THEOSOPHY.

###Maybe you all are just doing your best - without doing it differently - so to learn by it. 'Different' is an interesting word - right ? Neti Neti (not this, not that - but ParaBrahman). Not different ?###
> 
> Each student has to make this kind of choice. If one chooses to
> follow the writings of someone who followed H P B then one may
> expect to be somewhat misled. A translation is never as good as
> the original.

###I agree, that it can be so. And maybe not. A translation could make it all even better in some cases.###
> 
> As to "literalism" -- the "Eye doctrine" -- or the "dead-letter"
> versions -- there is also the same trouble. The reader may get
> too materialistically inclined in following an interpreter, or
> someone who "explains." How do we know that this interpretation
> or translation or opinion is correct to the original ?
> 
> Consider that if you read what H P B has written. You may be
> possibly misunderstanding her words. So the final recourse if
> the try and understand the MEANING.
> 
> That MEANING is the "Heart Doctrine," providing we apply in the
> case of THEOSOPHY the following criteria: universality, honesty,
> impartiality, sincerity, integrity, cohesiveness, generosity,
> unselfishness, and brotherhood in all respects. THEOSOPHY is
> always virtuous. Opinions are always to some extent SELFISH,
> limited, personal, and therefore they can be misleading.

###I can agree on that. My heart is way to small. We have to install ParaBrahman in our non-physical hearts - and even better ParaBrahman is already there - even if we know it or not.###
> 
> =================================================
> 
> 
> It tells about the creation of UNIVERSES, and the evolution of
> MANKIND.
> 
> it explains that every beginning is in SPIRIT which is eternal
> and unmodifiable.
> 
> It speaks of UNIVERSAL MIND as the Universal Energy that puts all
> forms together according to their level of development As such
> it works closely with Karma
> 
> Universal law (named Karma) is the result of all choices made by
> independent thought.
> 
> The universal fact of manifestation and evolution is explained
> metaphysically as " THE DESIRE OF THE UNIVERSE TO KNOW ITSELF."
> 
> To achieve this it divides itself into two parts of equal
> strength and power but diametrically opposed. We thus have
> SPIRIT and MATTER. Mind is the intermediary at the balance point
> between these two and "sees both sides." If spirit is considered
> to be WISDOM, then, Matter is IGNORANCE.
> 
> In it reside Memory, Imagination, Thought, Will, vision, and
> illusion (or Maya)
> 
> It speaks of the indestructible components of Nature (the
> Universe) as Monads -
> 
> We are MONADS -- spiritual in essence, -- universal in
> otency, -- and limited as forms.
> 
> The manifested universe provides the field of experience (all the
> Monads of lesser experience provide the myriad kinds of forms
> needed) .
> 
> We (as Mind-Monads) provide the benevolence, the generosity, the
> wisdom of experience. We as Spiritual entities, provide the
> whole energy and wisdom of cohesion and of dispersion as well as
> of every movement in time and space.
> 
> The eternal background is the Parabrahmic ABSOLUTE -- the
> EVER-EXISTENT, and the INDESCRIBABLE.
> 
> The controversies that arise between students reside more on
> stubbornness and a continued attempt to support earlier made
> opinions than on a perception, jointly, of facts.
> 
> ***Yes. But what about - LATER - (even future ones) opinons on
> Theosophy ? Should we follow the idea of HPB's in Section 2 of
> The Key to Theosophy, answer to which systems of thought
> Theosophy supports she stated: "We cull the good we find in
> each."
> What do you all think ?***
> 
> ===============================================
> 
> DTB Of course, we ought to "cull the good we find in each."
> 
> But we have first to make sure that we KNOW WHAT IS "GOOD."
> 
> We have to become WISE. -- as said above. we have to apply what
> we know of VIRTUE all the time.
> 
###Yes, YES, and here the different opinions comes in. And who is right ? Only ParaBrahman will in reality be the answer, but not everyone values thatto be of importance. Good is what the conscience says is good - when one is honest on this. But some likes to deceive themselves. But the conscience is never deceived. A lie never lasts forever. Truth crushed to earth will rise again. The moral of the universe is long, but it bends towards rightousness. You shall reap, what you sow. -- All right ?###

> 
> Nature has very wise and dangerous secrets. These will not
> become ours until such time as we are totally harmless to others.

###Yes, yes. Danger is only in our minds. ParaBrahman is omnipresent. ParaBrahman is no danger. Let us think positive - let us think 'no danger', let us think GOOD, and GOD, and Neti, Neti - let us transcend thoughts - but yes let us act wise.###
> 
> That is how I understand the matter.
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Dal
> 
> >[ I CUT HERE. Some parts are deleted.]
> 
Be good, do good, see good. Do-be-do-be-do see ?

Try Idries Shah all right ?

> from Sufilight
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 
>