Theos-Talk Archives (January 2002 Message tt00267)

Friday, January 18, 2002

Dear Friend:

Excuse this late response, please read some Notes below.

Best wishes,


Dal

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-----Original Message-----
From: M S
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2002 1:00 PM
To:
Subject: RE: On authority....



HI Dallas and all of you,

Thank you for you interesting answer.
My comments are in the Below - using ***.

from Sufilight



=====================================

Answers and observations to


----- Original Message -----
From: <dalval14@earthlink.net>
To: "
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2002 2:54 PM
Subject: Theos-World RE: On authority....


Saturday, January 12, 2002


Dear Friend:

THEOSOPHY is as I understand it a condensed report on the state
of the Universe and of Man.

To a large extent it is HISTORY.

***Yes. But the books of HPB and others on Theosophy are very
old - and often not/ or more than one time not - the best
material for new seekers of wisdom - to read anymore. Especially
those reading by the dead-letter yet, (i.e. not using the 7
keys). That is my view Dallas.***

==============================================

DTB	WISDOM does not alter with age if it is true. For instance,
mathematics is the same now as 10,000 year or 1,000,000 years
ago.

H P B issued the Message of Theosophy. It is the AGE-OLD message
of tested truth. It invites us all to test it as hard as
possible. Is it TRUE ? Only we, each of us, can determine that.
We constantly meet with those who are obviously wiser than we
are. How are we to consider them? THEY ARE IDENTICAL WITH US IN
SPIRITUAL MAKE-UP. -- They have an immortal SOUL, just as we
have. They are our Brother "pilgrims," perhaps a little
advanced. If they are TRULY WISE ONES they will not impose on
us, nor will they try to tell us how to do things. They will
speak to us of the principles and the laws of nature and suggest
what we test and apply them if we are satisfied. They will never
ask us to satisfy them. They will always give us our freedom to
make our own decisions, and then, to act as we decide. They know
and practise the rule: "Each Immortal Pilgrim has to make their
own choices freely." SOUL IMMORTALITY is the Key to every aspect
of our lives, as we advance towards the Supreme Perfection that
our many lives lead us to expect.

Our improvement is then shared by us wit the many small
"life-atoms" which we use in our bodies, and which after many
cycle of incarnation and experience will in some future
Manifestation become MEN-SOULS in their turn. Theosophy makes us
look at all beings as our brothers because regardless of their
intelligence, they are immortals identical with us in basics.

Later writers (including me) give our interpretations or opinions
concerning it. At best, we can point to the ORIGINALS and
recommend that students use those, because they are the best and
most original expressions of impartial and universal TRUTH --
which is : THEOSOPHY.

Each student has to make this kind of choice. If one chooses to
follow the writings of someone who followed H P B then one may
expect to be somewhat misled. A translation is never as good as
the original.

As to "literalism" -- the "Eye doctrine" -- or the "dead-letter"
versions -- there is also the same trouble. The reader may get
too materialistically inclined in following an interpreter, or
someone who "explains." How do we know that this interpretation
or translation or opinion is correct to the original ?

Consider that if you read what H P B has written. You may be
possibly misunderstanding her words. So the final recourse if
the try and understand the MEANING.

That MEANING is the "Heart Doctrine," providing we apply in the
case of THEOSOPHY the following criteria: universality, honesty,
impartiality, sincerity, integrity, cohesiveness, generosity,
unselfishness, and brotherhood in all respects. THEOSOPHY is
always virtuous. Opinions are always to some extent SELFISH,
limited, personal, and therefore they can be misleading.

=================================================


It tells about the creation of UNIVERSES, and the evolution of
MANKIND.

it explains that every beginning is in SPIRIT which is eternal
and unmodifiable.

It speaks of UNIVERSAL MIND as the Universal Energy that puts all
forms together according to their level of development As such
it works closely with Karma

Universal law (named Karma) is the result of all choices made by
independent thought.

The universal fact of manifestation and evolution is explained
metaphysically as " THE DESIRE OF THE UNIVERSE TO KNOW ITSELF."

To achieve this it divides itself into two parts of equal
strength and power but diametrically opposed. We thus have
SPIRIT and MATTER. Mind is the intermediary at the balance point
between these two and "sees both sides." If spirit is considered
to be WISDOM, then, Matter is IGNORANCE.

In it reside Memory, Imagination, Thought, Will, vision, and
illusion (or Maya)

It speaks of the indestructible components of Nature (the
Universe) as Monads -

We are MONADS -- spiritual in essence, -- universal in
otency, -- and limited as forms.

The manifested universe provides the field of experience (all the
Monads of lesser experience provide the myriad kinds of forms
needed) .

We (as Mind-Monads) provide the benevolence, the generosity, the
wisdom of experience. We as Spiritual entities, provide the
whole energy and wisdom of cohesion and of dispersion as well as
of every movement in time and space.

The eternal background is the Parabrahmic ABSOLUTE -- the
EVER-EXISTENT, and the INDESCRIBABLE.

The controversies that arise between students reside more on
stubbornness and a continued attempt to support earlier made
opinions than on a perception, jointly, of facts.

***Yes. But what about - LATER - (even future ones) opinons on
Theosophy ? Should we follow the idea of HPB's in Section 2 of
The Key to Theosophy, answer to which systems of thought
Theosophy supports she stated: "We cull the good we find in
each."
What do you all think ?***

===============================================

DTB	Of course, we ought to "cull the good we find in each."

But we have first to make sure that we KNOW WHAT IS "GOOD."

We have to become WISE. -- as said above. we have to apply what
we know of VIRTUE all the time.


Nature has very wise and dangerous secrets. These will not
become ours until such time as we are totally harmless to others.

That is how I understand the matter.

Best wishes,

Dal

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Truth is eternal, unmodifiable and is independent of any dates.

Now let's turn to the other statements / questions you make. Let
me ask you pardon in advance for some very strong and forthright
statements. These are made as I understand, and have learned
from Theosophy.


The only "authorities" today are the same as ever before: the
TEACHINGS and the PROPOSITIONS. They have been tested and proved
over millennia (see S D I 272-3)

***Yes Dallas, but in different forms, and languages using
different words of communication, cultures, on different levels
of conciousness, and creations.***

===================================

DTB	While recognizing the limitations of literalism, and the
"dead-letter" we have also to look for the MEANING that those
words convey. We are always responsible for our own
interpretations. We have to learn how to THINK and how to apply
very strict LOGIC. When dealing with other languages we have to
make sure that our presentation is as close to the original
MEANING as is possible.

====================================


Every student or devotee is his own authority. No other "person
(s)" can be safely taken as "authority," unless, following the
lead given us by H P B and the Mahatmas, they provide us with the
facts and reasoning we can verify.

WE HAVE TO DO THE WORK.

***Exactly, I agree.***

We cannot buy Truth, or wisdom, or "magic" for a fee or from
misplaced "devotion," and "loyalty. And from the very outset we
can only devote ourselves to study and discern the true from the
false, the everlasting, from the fleeting and misleading. When
that is gasped we can apply, and help.

***But some new seekers of wisdom will learn more if they are
offered to pay. - But - I agree, it is even better to show an
example.***

==================================

DTB	No TRUTH of any kind in occultism, theosophy or esotericism
will ever be charged for. There is no possibility of information
being true if money is involved. The moment money is involved a
certain amount of SELF-INTEREST is evoked, and that makes the
information unreliable. We have to very wise, then, to unravel
the TRUE from the FALSE.

We may take it as an inflexible rule, that WISDOM CANNOT BE
BOUGHT at any price. But it an be earned, deserved and imparted
by THOSE WHO KNOW. [ And they never pose as "authorities."

====================================


WE HAVE TO MAKE OURSELVES INTO OUR OWN AUTHORITIES. In this
there is neither superior nor inferior, all are EQUALS. We are
all spiritual Monads, and in our common spiritual base we are all
equally wise and good. We have to make this a matter of
application now.

***Thanks Dallas.***

But we cannot expect to take and use others' "short-cuts." We
have to make our own direct connection with the ever living
WISDOM RELIGION -- THE SNATANA DHARMA that ever lives. We have
to prove for ourselves the value and the virtue of all teachings
an suggestions.

H P B said it clearly" "Do not follow me, or my Path. Follow
the Path I show, -- the Masters who are behind."

She gave us much -- a revolution of the Mind processes and the
Wisdom capacity of the whole of our humanity is already affected
by the teachings of THEOSOPHY -- and as time progresses, there
will more of this visible and effective. We have to study, so as
to perceive this and make ourselves effective assistants.

***Yes. But som of those who are living today - in reality -
walks the PATH - of spiritual development etc. - by using a -
litterally seen different system than that of HPB's.***

==================================

DTB	On our Earth there is ONE ANCIENT AND INDESTRUCTIBLE SCHOOL
(or COLLEGE, or LODGE) of ADEPTS. All true WISE ONES belong to
that. Why would there be two or more?

Honesty, truth, wisdom, accuracy, value -- are always positive
and always will agree with one-another.

Yes there are "other systems" than those of H P B === But, I
challenge them to demonstrate that they have a grasp of the
IMMORTALITY of the HUMAN SPIRIT which is ONE WITH THE UNIVERSAL
SPIRIT, or that they can demonstrate a coherent philosophy and
history of evolution which takes care of the smallest as well as
the greatest entities, (men included) in our world and universe.

You must really read ISIS UNVEILED and The SECRET DOCTRINE very
carefully. You will find that the KEY TO THEOSOPHY (HPB) says
nothing different from either of them.

==========================================


She and the Masters (who are not dead and gone) are our
"leaders" -- Those, and the DIVINE HIGHER SELF within each of
us, which is, we might say, always is ONE WITH THEIRS.

Either immortality and individual responsibility are facts or the
whole theosophical effort is useless.

We have to decide on that -- as our own future lies in that
decision -- right there.

***Yes. But the Masters are not only into Theosophy - (when
talking litterature from before 1950 or something like that), of
one branch' own interpretation, there are 'other' PATHS (so to
speak), which the Masters - are taking care of.***

===================================

DTB	How do you (or I) know that the same MASTERS OF WISDOM are
"taking care" of new Paths? What tools of mind and thought and
logic and intuition have we developed to test and to use, so we
can ASSURE OURSELVES that these new "paths" are TRUE ?

Personally, I do not like "guess work." Also, I am not prepared
to accept "authority," unless there is a very open and sound
basis for any claims made. So I avoid any kind of "blind belief"
or "faith" -- and when I lend myself to recommending anything, I
try to make sure that it is impersonal, universal, and clear to
understand. I try to avoid any kind of vague or unprovable
statements.

=================================


***
As this is interesting, because of the physical Planets present
situation - I would like to ask you if you have any comments on
the Afghan author Idries Shah (d. 1996) ?? (You know HPB didn't
do much on the Middle East and the Sufis - because as she states,
that there was very few works transleted into european languages,
at her time of writing. -- Look in SD for that.)

==============================

DTB	I know well that H P B was in contact with the Sufis. But I
do not personally know about Idries Shah and his writings.

I would say that Theosophy is in brotherly accord with all
movements that call for reasonableness, tolerance, equal rights
and protection for women, children and do not consider that
being in a male body is title for being tyrannical or
authoritarian in any way. Men who use their strength to be
bullies and tyrants in any way, at home or elsewhere are
ignorant, and are very poor protectors of the rights and
privileges of their companions and those for whom they are
responsible.

The SOUL has no gender. It is immortal and from life to life it
uses whatever bodies that might be the best for its KARMA to
manifest. The true man is as harmless to an infant as he may be
to a King. He recognizes the links of responsibility that are
fair and reasonable for all and which are the true cement of
communities, and all actions that lead to constructive effort.

We are all on a common pilgrimage, and, as brother immortal
Pilgrims, we are bound to help one another in spite of the
differences and the "labels" that the world at large imposes on
us. You may live thousands of miles away, but the brotherhood of
true thoughts, of generosity and compassion unites us as
brothers -- as though we lived in a single home and ate our meals
together.

We are citizens of the World. The World is round and not
divided. To do GOOD is our common religion. Our main lesson in
this, or any life, is to LEARN WHAT GOOD IS, and then practice it
benevolently and with generosity. That is how I see it. Best
wishes, always, to you.

=========================================



feel free to do your best.

from Sufilight
***



Best wishes,

Dallas

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