Theos-Talk Archives (January 2002 Message tt00012)

Hi Dallas, and all of you,

Thank you for your answer Dallas.
I will seek to help as far I can. 
I have added some comments to - the questions below - using * stars.
But - they are just my contribution - others may disagree.
I have done this - to be as honest as possible - on the issue.

from Sufilight


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <dalval14@earthlink.net>
To: <study@blavatsky.net>
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 6:39 PM
Subject: Theos-World RE: H P B on ASTROLOGY


> January 2, 2002
> 
> Dear Friend:
> 
> I think it is a useful quotation that you provide us with from H
> P B. Let me look at some of the implications it causes me to
> think of -- and some questions to ask.
> 
> 
> Perhaps we ought to ask: What limited TIME cycles were
> established when our Universe, Galaxy, and our small World sprang
> into existence? [ see for instance S D II 68-70 ]
> 
> Presumably the vast CLOCK of NATURE and the relations to
> astrological "influences" (which remain to be explained as to the
> nature of their influence and impact on various aspects of our
> characters, "principles" and natures).
> 
> I have found in The SECRET DOCTRINE and other original
> theosophical writings small clues scattered here and there
> concerning the operation of individuals and communities, family
> and national Karma related to the constellations and the stars.
> It is, for me, difficult to integrate them.
> 
> There appears to be confusion on several points.
> 
> 1. When is Karma created?

***Karma sprang from ParaBrahman - Look in Bhagavad Gita !! Only Parabrahman is beyond Karma.***
> 
> 2. Is its beginning marked in the Clock of the Stars? How ? 

***Yes. But 'marked' in a very spiritual and esoterical manner - no doubt.***
***One will have to experience how - to really get it.***
> 
> 3. Since there is always a vast interaction of many causes,
> who or how are they coordinated?

***Of course by the Law of Karma. ParaBrahman is Karma in total and is alsobeyond Karma. ParaBrahman shouldn't be underestimated !!!***
> 
> 4. Presumably reincarnation of the immortal Ego has
> something to do with astrology, as well as the birth and
> conception of the present personal self and its physical body
> which serves as vehicle for this incarnation.

***Yes - but it can only - have to do with astrology - to a certain degree- that is my experience. There is a sort of spiritual 'decision' (or more likely more than one decision) taken on different higher levels (of the 7 planes etc.) - and then if the 'plan' for the incarnation runs well - everything is allright.***
> 
> 5. What is the purpose of astrological investigation ?
> Motive ?
> 
***Yes I ask the same. - I would also like to know that - and on what levelone is dealing with it. Anyone ??***

> 6. Can any one be benefited by previewing the future, theirs
> or others ?

***Yes - certainly. But this implies a responsability - to handle such a knowledge. Secrecy - on wisdom of the future events - often creps in - out oftrue compassion - to avoid - prejudice and damage or blocking others spiritual development. Such a Wisdom with knowledge of the future is intimately connected with - LOVE - and unselfish behavoir, - the Initiated uses their knowledge to help - creation and evolution to unfold/transcend time and life towards perfection.***
> 
> 7. What part does prophecy, and "visions" play in this ?
> 
> If these can be integrated I imagine we will find two aspects
> emerge:
> 
> 1) The influence on us of this particular era, civilization,
> race, country, nation, religion, scientific knowledge, and other
> practical matters.
> 
> 2) The general influence on world history and development --
> the sweep of epidemics or invasions, of economic prosperity or
> depression, and of other psychic or spiritual cycles. The ripple
> of discoveries and their applications.
> 
> Remains always the particular application: if we get some
> insights into this, will we use the knowledge for general good,
> or for our own "personal and selfish advantage ?"
> 
> I think for me it is more a matter of curiosity than of any
> specific knowledge I can use.
> 
> As to the Karmic relationship and :free-will." Can we not say
> that when any human acquires the independence of the
> Mind-faculty, then and there are the beginnings of personal Karma
> for that mind. The Personal form that is assembled before and on
> birth for this incarnation was preceded by similar "forms" in
> earlier lives. We are assuming the concept of Individual
> immortality is grasped and agreed on as a basis for thought and
> living.
> 
> But Theosophy teaches that we are individual MONADS and that we
> are immortals, and have been traveling over the pilgrim path
> towards the Perfection that stands as a general Goal for us all.
> Additionally let us also say that the Spiritual Self incarnates
> as a volunteer into the personality already informed by the
> personal ego -- to serve a friend and counselor -- not as a
> director in anyway. The "Lower self" is the Lower, embodied mind
> allied with passions and desires. MIND is the intermediate
> between this "lower mind" and the divine Monad ( ATMA-BUDDHI) --
> or the "spiritual Self."
> 
> There are a number of important concepts integrate here.

***Yes - let us integrate the universe - before predicting - our selves as Astrologist 'personalities', 'initiates' or whatever. All the vehichles - with - their cycles - have a karmic aspect - and the - personality has Karma- just like via analogy - Manas-Buddhi-Atma has - with the Monad hanging above. 
(Not everyone agrees here: And according to Subba T. Row as I understand him 1. 2. and 3. Logos has Karma as a sort of - high level 'personality' to ParaBrahman. -- See "Notes on the Bahgavad Gita")

God is ParaBrahman. God is good. Good is good. That is good.

predicting-ly

from Sufilight
***
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Dallas
> 
> =================================
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: M S
> Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 1:18 AM
> To:
> Subject: Re: H P B on ASTROLOGY
> 
> Hi, Dallas,
> 
> Thanks. I think the following quote are coming in as something
> quite new, to many seekers of astrology.
> 
> You wrote:
> 
> "We hold that the science of Astrology only determines the nature
> of effects, by a knowledge of the law of magnetic affinities and
> attractions of the Planetary bodies, but that it is the Karma of
> the individual himself, which places him in that particular
> magnetic relation."
> H P B Theosophist, Vol. 6, p. 106 [CWB 6-p.327]
> 
> So, Dallas how is the Law of Karma, explaining - free will.
> ==============================================
> 
> dtb basically all Monads are "free" -- the limits
> are "brotherhood" and "cooperation."
> Once Mind is acquired, the responsibility for directing it to act
> harmoniously and cooperatively is also assumed by the individual
> self-consciousness. Tis is part of its self-education -- a
> process which we as humans are undergoing. The knowledge that
> Theosophy provides is to explain this, and then to point to
> further and future development -- for consideration and
> self-implementation if we desire to do so.
> 
> ====================================================
> 
> If everything can be predicted - by Astrology. Then there can't
> be any - free will, can there ?
> Do we have a - free will ? And if so how is it to be understood -
> together with astrology ?
> 
> 
> =======================================
> 
> DTB Look on it as self-imposed effects which we set in past
> lives. But we have very little to go on here and now. We are
> all in some or other situation. what choices will we be making
> now? What kind of a future will we be building? Does a
> knowledge of Theosophical principles help?
> 
> What do we need to know?
> 
> ========================================
> 
> Some readers will probably agree, that the Christians some years
> back in the Middle Ages - banned Astrology, because as they said,
> there couldn't any free will - if Astrology was a reality.
> 
> I just find the question important - and I guess - that some
> readers - also do that.
> 
> and
> 
> happy new ...
> 
> from
> 
> 
>  
> 
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> 
> 
>