Theos-Talk Archives (January 2002 Message tt00011)

Gerald: "The business, for example, of "every temple
has a dark room ..." is bullshit given out to attract
the unwary and ignorant.

Notice this was a direct quote from a "mahatma
letter." It is therefore hard to see how one could
justify the statement that it "is bullshit given out
to attract the unwary and ignorant." It seems
apparent that such rooms did not exist in Tibetan
temples. There may have been such a room in
Ramdolph's place on Boylston Street in Boston.

Gerald: "And "the astral light is collected in a cup
by willpower" is pure poetry because the astral light
is not a 
physical substance that one can gather and place
anywhere.

Sounds like a technique to me.

Gerald: "After years of study and practice, one will
come to be able to see through these kinds of outer
trimmings and poetical fancies, and see what is really
going on. Most of the mirror and crystal gazing
descriptions are the very thing that Blavatsky, in
other parts of her writings, warns readers against.

Actually, she spoke well of Hungarian colleague Adelma
vam Vey's book VISIONEN IM WASSERGLASSE. There was
nary a word of protest againat Emma Hardinge Britten's
experiments, which were described in detail. 
Blavatsky said when she looked into the "astral light"
it was as if she was gazing into a mirror, etc.

Gerald: "The mirror and crystal (and water sometimes)
are simply devices used to allow the mind to imagine,
to form mental images

The historical problem here is whether it is a
historical fact that Blavatsky used them. The
evidence is that it is.

Gerald: "the trick is to be able to distinguish
between detailed kamamanas descriptions (which
are usually mental projections and not what is really
going on) and lessdetailed buddhimanas
descriptions.

In theory the real skinny would be non phenomenal,
meaning there would be no sensory content (visions,
sounds, etc.) yet there would be content, represented
in non sensory terms. This would explain the
"ineffable" quality of such content.

Gerald: "Steve's final observation, that mirrors and
such can actually work, is quite correct  they
CAN

What I said is, that some people really see images
that way without fraud or drugs being involved. The
experiences are real, in other words. No comment on
whether the images were veridical.

Gerald: "I think that the work done by Dee and Kelly,
for example, and some of the flying scroll work of the
original Golden Dawn, ranks up there with examples of
true scrying.

Question: is that a faith statement or do you have
evidence?

Kelly did the same thing as Blavatsky, using a "shew
stone" instead of a mirror. It is very similar, in
fact, to what Joseph Smith did. The question of
whether the visions are veridical is a difficult one
which I doubt can be settled because the necessary
evidence is wanting. However, the "tattva symbol"
visions described in the "flying rolls" strike me as
mere eidetic imagery acquired while in a twilight
state of daydreaming.

Steve

--- Gerald Schueler <gschueler@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Brigitte,
> 
> Did you want a para-by-para analysis or just general
> comments? The business, for example, of "every
> temple has a dark room ..." is bullshit given out to
> attract the unwary and ignorant. And "the astral
> light is collected in a cup by willpower" is pure
> poetry because the astral light is not a physical
> substance that one can gather and place anywhere.
> 
> After years of study and practice, one will come to
> be able to see through these kinds of outer
> trimmings and poetical fancies, and see what is
> really going on. Most of the mirror and crystal
> gazing descriptions are the very thing that
> Blavatsky, in other parts of her writings, warns
> readers against.
> 
> The mirror and crystal (and water sometimes) are
> simply devices used to allow the mind to imagine, to
> form mental images, and it is one's own
> magical imagination that does the scrying - the
> trick is to be able to distinguish between detailed
> kama-manas descriptions (which are usually mental
> projections and not what is really going on) and
> less-detailed buddhi-manas descriptions.
> 
> Steve's final observation, that mirrors and such can
> actually work, is quite correct - they CAN, but
> probably the images seen will just be projections by
> the scrier. I think that the work done by Dee and
> Kelly, for example, and some of the flying scroll
> work of the original Golden Dawn, ranks up there
> with examples of true scrying.
> 
> Jerry S.
> 
> ***************************
> In reference to earlier postings
> 
>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/4385
> 
>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/4433
> 
> Steve presented some (I think revolutionary) quotes
> from among others the "Mahatma Letters" indicating
> their familiarity with P.B.Randolp`s book
> SEERSHIP. Knowing you probably dealt with the
> subject "scrying" during your John Dee books
> research , including its later forms in modern
> esoteric movements (Crowley ?), plus its modern
> versions in the humanistic psychology off shoots,
> could you pls comment on this :
> 
>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/4488
> 
> And how you see it can make us understand
> Blavatsky,s inner workings, plus
> occult/spiritual evolution, more ?
> 
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Brigitte
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 


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