Theos-Talk Archives (October 2001 Message tt00215)

Tuesday, October 16, 2001

Re: FAITH and TRUST

Dear Friends:


The question really is a search for the base of these two
attitudes.

Does the question not imply that there exists both ignorance and
knowledge?

If so, Then Who develops "TRUST," and, Who develops "Faith?"

what is there in the human being for which these two are seen as
things that can be either adopted or rejected?

But first, ought we not to find out exactly what a "human being"
is, and what are his capabilities?

It would be difficult to answer this Theosophically if one is not
familiar with the 7-fold constitution of man as described in the
KEY TO THEOSOPHY (HPB) or The SECRET DOCTRINE .

If one is impatient for and wants a quick answer, nothing can be
answered accurately in a rush.

Further, no one can give proof to any one, but the presentation
of facts and experience may encourage the recipient or the
seeker/student to study diligently on his own.

Theosophy does present the knowledge that ancient Sages have
amassed, and provides a view of the rules and laws that run the
secret and invisible side of our Universe -- the side that
underlies the physical.

It would be good to study the KEY TO THEOSOPHY (HPB) , and The
SECRET DOCTRINE And examine them for information we have not
yet had on our earth and its development and the purpose for
man's existence, .The two books mentioned above can provide
answers. Use the INDEX that is provided for students of each of
them if you desire to center on specific questions.

But first Know the 3 fundamentals [ SECRET DOCTRINE I 14-19 ]
and the 7 PRINCIPLES

The 7 divisions are not simply names but functions. See S D I
157, 181, 200, 242-6, II 596
See KEY TO THEOSOPHY (HPB) pp. 91-2, 135-6, 195-6.

References: SECRET DOCTRINE I 157, 242-6, II 593, 596.


BASIC PROPOSITIONS of THEOSOPHY


Briefly: Theosophy holds to the basic proposition that

1.	The word NATURE is a synonym for the LIVING UNIVERSE. [ From
the subatomic particle, to the grain of sand, to the Mind of an
individual human, to the fartherest Sun of the UNIVERSE we can
sense.-- ALL is ruled by LAW. It is uniform, impartial, wise and
upholds the Brotherhood of all beings.]

2.	Ancient texts ( Patanjali's Yoga Sutras) state that the
UNIVERSE exists for the Soul's experience. The Soul is the Mind.
Mind demands intelligence, the power to see, to think to reason,
to seek for basic facts, and to universalize.

3.	The age of each mind/Soul is said to be as incalculable as is
the life of an atom (which Science says is a perpetual motion
machine). In the present Manifestation on our Earth, the mind of
the human form is said to have been lighted about 18 and a half
million years ago.

4.	Since a single life time is inadequate to learn all that can
be learned concerning our world, ourselves and the Universe the
process of learning has been broke into successive "lives" on
Earth. in successive Personalities or physical forms.
Reincarnation is the process used. The Mind/soul is imperishable
and eternal. Humans are called the ETERNAL PILGRIMS.



3 LINES OF EVOLUTION


3.	There are three lines of Evolution conjoined in Man and we may
discover them in ourselves. There are

1.	The Wisdom of the SPIRIT -- and this is shared with all
beings. It is the basis for Universal Brotherhood. Wisdom is the
common property of all evolving beings.

2.	The existence of universal INTELLIGENCE or Mind. The eternal
Soul is continually learning. This is also shared and is
constantly added to through experience.

3.	Evolution of Intelligence in matter describes the process
whereby Matter
evolves. Its intelligence provides the FORM in which Mind and
Spirit can live and act.


UNIVERSAL MANIFESTATIONS


4.	The process of evolution demands a succession of Universal
Manifestations. The largest figure in terms of our years is
called a KALPA and is said to be 4 trillion, 320 billions of
years. In point of time for us, now, we are a little over half
way through the present one. [see S D II pp 68-70 ]


GREAT ADEPTS ASSIST NATURE.


5.	Since the processes of evolution are complex Nature ( the
Universe) uses their intelligence of assistants,. These
assistants are the Great Adept and Sages, Masters of Wisdom,
Mahatmas, Dhyan Chohans, Buddhas, etc...and each has supervisory
duties in connection with a vast host of evolving intelligences
in any one earth, or solar system. Everyone of these was a Man.
But the rules for their success demand a thorough control over
anything selfish or passionate. They have made themselves into a
Force impersonal that lives for good alone. Thus, They that have
become wise. Once they were like we are now, but they
determined, as we do now, to study and work with nature for
untold aeons. [ See S D I 207-210 for an example of such
sacrifice. S D I 272-3 describes the process of their study
and learning.]

6.	The Adepts have always maintained Lodges where they study,
always learning more about Nature and her multitude of ways, and
where their pupils may be summoned if and when they reach a point
where their own study and learning needs enhancement.. The
location of those Lodges are never divulged. The membership of
an Individual in this great Brotherhood is never spoken of. One
of the laws of occultism is that these things are never spoken of
to those who might be curious or determined to violate the
secrecy under which Nature protects them.

7.	Mme. H. P. Blavatsky was acknowledged by Them as their agent.
Her books and articles received their approval, as many who lived
around her have testified.


SEVEN-FOLD NATURE and MAN

If one studies carefully the 7-fold division of man and Nature,
one will soon realize that the SPIRITUAL Principles
(ATMA-BUDDHI-MANAS) are the 3 that are permanent and immortal.

MANAS serves as a link between the SPIRITUAL INDIVIDUALITY and
the evanescent and temporary Personality. It is therefore dual
and is divided into the HIGHER MANAS ( BUDDHI-MANAS) and the
Lower Manas (KAMA-MANAS) Kama is the sanskrit term used to
designate the selfish passions and desires which isolate one
human from another and cause isolation and vice to arise.

The Personality represents the evolution of intelligence in the
material substance that makes up the form of Man. Its finest
evolution permits the brain to receive the lowest touch of the
Manas (Human Mind) and there it can unite with the highest aspect
of material evolution the FEELINGS DESIRES and PASSIONS we are so
familiar with. To complete the 4 Personal principles we have in
order Kama, Prana (life energy), the Astral body and the physical
body.


TRUST or FAITH ?

Now the question first arises: Are we to trust these teachings?
I would say we ought to test them after securing an understanding
of theosophical doctrines concerning them. If and when we
become convinced that they are useful valuable and forma coherent
whole we can use, then we may place our "faith" NOT IN THEM or in
THEOSOPHY, but in what we have understood Nature is.

Theosophy describes Nature. it dos not seek for members or
adherents.


BROTHERHOOD -- A UNIVERSAL FACT


It recommends Brotherhood as an attitude and a practice in life
of one's best abilities. But the decision to do this is left
entirely to the student/aspirant. The pupil has to develop faith
and trust in his own abilities. It is better that he do this
independently because, although bathed in the Universal SPIRIT,
he has to realize this INTELLECTUALLY and Personally, and then,
after he has demonstrated this to himself, he determines to make
himself into an Adept -- one capable of directly perceiving the
ONE SPIRIT.

The most difficult thing to change is the educational bias we
received that speculated and theorized that the evolution of
MATTER demonstrated the rise of INTELLIGENCE. Fossils do not
demonstrate this, as a number of eminent Scientists have
contested on sound grounds.

Theosophy holds that it is WISDOM and INTELLIGENCE which
descended to encourage Man's Mind to rise to a more universal
level of vision and understanding.

I trust this may prove of help.

best wishes,

Dallas

================================





-----Original Message-----
From: N--------
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2001 11:31 AM
To:
Subject: Re FAITH and TRUST -- Which comes first ?

Which came first ? Faith or trust?
8888888888888888888

<<<<<<<What I wonder also is how this is (from the perspective of
the
history of ideas and the underlying message, that is the inner
attitude
that creates) works out with theosophy , where the emphasis is
"not
so much" on one source, or a God , but more on an elusive
group of beings called Masters , and one has to "wait" till one
is ready,
and "they" contact you?
Thank you,
B------e>>>

I will answer this in a way that others will possibly object to.
But I see
our situation as human beings as been completely reliant on faith
for
everything and anything - faith in others, faith in our senses,
faith in our
intellect, faith in our logic and reason, faith in intuition,
faith in our
spiritual experiences, and so on. I see this as our fundamental
human
condition. "Knowledge" and especially "reality" is simply a
consensus-based
faith. In the case of the Theosophical "core teachings" one must
have faith
in those who first propounded them, who put them together from
their own
experiences and cultural outlooks, and who passed them on to us
through
Blavatsky. One must also have faith that Blavatsky passed them
onto us
correctly. As just one example, look at sex and the strong
emphasis given on
its abstinance. Blavatsky was taught that sexual celibacy is
"necessary" for
any real spiritual Path. This idea is in total disagreement with
many other
spiritual Teachers (including Buddhist Tantricism or Vajrayana),
and with my
own experiences. Therefore, I do not see this as a "core
teaching" but
rather as a cultural issue in that celibacy possibly helps one at
the
beginning stages of the Path, but is not at all essential. This
is just one
example of a "linage" teaching that may or may not exist in other
equally
valid linages.

As far as "contact" is concerned, most is done esoterically
through dreams
and meditations rather than through direct physical contact.
Inner "contact"
with Masters is going on all the time - when we are mentally
ready/prepared,
their ideas will pour into our minds (of course, we pretty much
have to take
this on faith ...).

Jerry

==============================================