Theos-Talk Archives (February 2001 Message tt00161)

Dear Martin:

As far as I can see no one is seeking any personal exaltation.

Yes there are differences between ORIGINAL THEOSOPHY and
Pseudo-theosophy which has arisen AFTER THE DEATH OF H.P.B.

The problem is to distinguish between the two.

It can only be done if you know what ORIGINAL H.P.B. TEACHINGS
are -- then you have a touch-stone whereby you can test any
writing or speech that claims to be "theosophical."

There is no attack on those who claim to represent or speak about
THEOSOPHY, providing they also know that difference.

Those who have studied the ORIGINAL TEACHINGS, may offer quotes
to those who are unfamiliar with the primary teachings. This is
not done to confuse or for any kind of "one-upmanship." It is
only to make clear the difference.

Of course every student or promulgator is left absolutely FREE to
offer what they know, but the lab le THEOSOPHY has to be made
clear and sure. Are we discussing H.P.B. theosophy OR ARE WE
DISCUSSING A WHOLE HOST OF OPINIONS WHICH AROSE AND BECAME
POPULAR after her DEATH ?

Each one makes that kind of decision for themselves.

It is to be expected that those who honor H.P.B.'s and Master's
sacrifices are coming forward to point to differences in
expression and to ask for reconciliation. But this is never
personally aimed, and is only for the benefit of those who are
unaware of those differences and divergences.

This is how I understand it.

Dal

=================



-----Original Message-----
From: Martin Leiderman [mailto:martinle@mindspring.com]
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2001 9:14 PM
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: Theos-World Kundalini Siddhis and HPB

Dear friends,

Thanks Dallas and Peter for the time in responding and forwarding
Jerome's emai.

The mystery of all this is that when in Theosophy you talk about
chakras, kundalini, psychic, and the same, immediately our
theosophical
friends turn in something like the Pope - preaching to all the
negative
consequences. It is something like: 'you sinners' do not have
the
spiritual height nor the ethical depth to do anything . . . .
And on
the same token they recommend endless book reading, and
spirituality
is refer and exalted if the person is able to quote various
paragraphs
from the same 'few' books. The better quote the higher in the
Path of
the heart. Oh wow . . . I think the more we quote the more
mental/psychic we are. The Eye Doctrine. Look at the mental
building/structure created and the sad is we ended up believing
that we
are what we can quote, when the work is in benefiting humanity
and the
progress in the inner Path of the Heart which in my humble
opinion is
not in negating the progress but in renouncing to the fruit of
the
merits. In building the Nirmanakaya body. But this maybe too
esoteric
for some of you. Let me know your opinion on this last part of
the
paragraph.

And no my dear Jerome I am not that Martin that you quote "If you
are
the Martin with as much background in theosophy..." I have seen
beautiful people . . . well I don't think you can relate dear
friend.
Probably you don't even meditate, correct me if I am wrong.

And my dear Jerome, I stopped 'smelling the flowers' long time
ago, with
all the work I just don't have the time. To end this thought
reading
books, and gather in meetings about reading more books with the
purpose
of show some understanding by tying all the quotes you can come
up with
. . . wow . . .is only a small part of the journey. The greatest
part
of the journey is the direct apprehension of the 'nothingness'
which can
be done through meditation . . . And in this there many
approaches, my
favorite Vipassana . . . and that is all. I speak from the heart
and
experience guided of course from those great Teaching HPB and
others
brought to us. But if I have not have a direct experience with it
. . .
who am I to quote as an authority???

Love you all

Martin

dalval14@earthlink.net wrote:

> Monday, February 19, 2001
>
> Dear Friends
>
> Another correspondent would like to offer Martin L. the
following
> to consider:
>
> Dallas
>
> =====================================
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jerome Wheeler [mailto:ultinla@juno.com]
> Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2001 3:23 PM
>
> Subject: Re: Theos-World Kundalini Siddhis and HPB
>
> Since I am not on theos-talk, perhaps this might be forwarded
to
> Martin
> Liederman-------
>
> ======================
> Sunday Feb 18 2001
>
> Dear Sir, pardon my interlocutor status, but with your
indulgence
> I will
> make a comment---------
>
> There is a higher and a lower kundalini. It works all the
time!!
>
> However, to transform upward requires following the discipline
> outlined
> in the VOS. The first big hurdle is to adopt and plant in life
> the
> desire to serve others more than ourselves. That's a hard one
to
> achieve
> for usually we go into these things tainted by the self-growth
> syndrome.
> However, if one tries to apply the discipline of the V.O.S.
even
> that
> problem will
>
> (1) be clearly exposed to the student inside their own nature
so
> they
> can no longer dodge the issue and
>
> (2) gradually begin to wane and weaken
>
> In due time there will occur exactly what the VOICE says: the
> World
> Mother or Kundalini will rise to the Heart. Leave it alone,
take
> note,
> but do nothing.
>
> Keep on trying to intensify your love of humanity and desire to
> grasp at
> every opportunity of service that comes your way ---- and,
keep
> on with
> the daily meditation. In due time it will do EXACTLY what the
> VOICE
> says: rise to the sixth. (the middle region, the place between
> thine eyes...)
>
> But with no service and no clarification of our motive; no
> strengthening
> of our will, HOW IS THIS GOING TO HAPPEN?? If by "cultish" you
> mean
> something that includes very, very, few, then I agree it is
most
> distinctly cultish. Most persons in this day and age have
other
> priorities for their "spare time," and the discipline outlined
in
> the
> Voice will take all of that and then some!!!
>
> The lower kills one morally, and quite often even physically,
for
> instead
> of taking you to the sky in a whirlwind raised by your own
> efforts, it
> will take you to the center of the earth---loose and astray on
> Lunar
> Path.
>
> If you are the Martin with as much background in theosophy as I
> think you
> have, then surely you must have seen and experienced pilgrims
> with the
> insane stare and gibberish of those who believe in the unseen
and
> abnormal but fail to transcend an intense sense of separateness
> before
> beginning to dabble in magic. Psychic Groups that I have
known,
> known
> of, and read about are almost invariably centered by a Pilgrim
> who
> eventually CLAIMS TO BE GOD!! When some supposedly spiritual
> activity is
> based on SEX, and/or POWER, and/or MONEY---beware.
>
> SERVICE and SELF-SACRIFICE will grow for us a clean set of eyes
> not only
> to see the flaw in the above, but the seeds of these in
ourself.
> No one
> is without them. According to Patanjali to have "burnt the
seed"
> of such
> is a far advanced step on the Path; or asThe VOICE puts it:
"Ah,
> great
> is he who is the slayer of desire; still greater he in whom the
> Self
> Divine has slain the very knowledge of desire."
>
> Far more interesting than Kundalini is the power of Kriyasakti.
> Now
> there's a Siddhi worth writing home about!!
> have a nice day, and don't forget to smell the flowers,
>
> jerome
> Offered by Dallas for Jerome