Theos-Talk Archives (February 2001 Message tt00153)

February 23, 2001


Dear Jerry:

Thanks for your notes, to which I add some more of mine

Dal

================================

-----Original Message-----
From: Jerry S [mailto:gschueler@earthlink.net]
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2001 7:25 AM
To: Theosophy Study List
Subject: Response to Dallas

<<Dear Gerry:
Please this is a brief answer, as I have so little time and labor
under some illnesses -- so it takes long to type.>>

I am very sorry to hear this. I am not too well either,
although I do seem to be recovering. [ I WISH I WERE, but this
body !!!! is getting quite feeble ]


<<In my understanding: ABSOLUTENESS is totally undefinable in
any way.>>

Well, perhaps this is true if your ABOLUTENESS is
different from normal absoluteness. Personally, the idea
that BENESS somehow splits up into relative and
absolute in the sense of our 7-plane solar system,
with relative=samsara and absolute=nirvana works
well for me.
============================================

DTB [ see S.D. II 606-7 as an instance of this ]

DTB	To me ABSOLUTENESS is "an indescribable and unchangeable
background" in which all differentiated beings bathe and from
which all emerged in the periodic manifestation of the ONE ONLY
ONE. This does not however establish a description nor does it
divide the ABSOLUTENESS / BENESS into some tangible division/s in
my mind.
----------------------------------------------

<<To me all the Logoi [Unmanifested, Manifesting, and Manifested]
are symbols of limitation, which under karma cause cyclically
manifestation (for the adjustment by free-willed beings of the
universal harmony they previously disturbed) -- Karma (of the
"aggregates -- skandhas --) demands evolutionary periods in which
they as "pupils" may learn more and voluntarily improve. Our
Earth represents such a school as do all the planets associated
with any system, anywhere.>>

The trouble with the school scenario is that it implies
a beginning in which we are ignorant.

DTB	I would rather say that the MONADS show evidence of many
levels of experience acquired since they emanated from the
MONADIC ESSENCE (S.D. I 616 532 178-9 455) They are said in S.D.
to be "Eternal" Hence a "beginning" is indefinable, although to
be logical I would say they EMANATE AGAIN when a fresh
manifestation (after a Maha-Pralaya) occurs. {see H.P.B.
Articles [ULT] Vol. III, p. 165 ISIS UNVEILED AND THE
VISISHTADWAITA (Theosophist, Jan. 1886; BCW 7, pp. 51-2)
DTB	If you apply linearity to this concept, you are right,
however there is the sphericity of the immutable, eternal,
impartite and all-inclusive, where our sense of TIME has no
meaning. How does the universal fluidity (our concept) of the
SPIRITUAL ever related to the rigidity of forms implied in the
PHYSICALITY of GROSS MATTER forms?

Only the MIND can act as a go-between using the concept of LAW -
KARMA as an active intelligent Force -- FOHAT as UNIVERSAL MIND
nd also as his "sons" in the actions and resultant Karma of every
Monad or human. To me, it is the progressive program of
evolution from the ONE ALL ONE to the individualized ALL SEEING
UNITARY ONE ALL ONE, each such "unit" being itself UNIVERSAL,
ETERNAL AND "UNIVERSALLY SELF CONSCIOUS." I would add that each
Monad "mirrors" every other Monad because it own parameters are
UNIVERSAL and IMPARTITE.-- hence BROTHERHOOD is the rule and not
a hopelessly deferred ideal. It is awareness and consciousness of
this universal and practical IDEAL that brings us to the level of
the BUDDHAS and the CHOHANS -- and we then work in sacrifice for
others "who know still less that (we do)." VOICE [ That
SACRIFICE will be seen mentioned in S.D. II 606, and S.D. I
207-8.]

=============================

Now, I know that Buddhism accepts ignorance as the primary cause
of our
cyclic existence, but we still have to ask - Where did
this ignorance come from? How did we become ignorant in
the first place? Linear progression in the sense of a
long series of learning experiences demands a beginning
which is simply not there. A cyclic self-expression makes
more sense to me than linearly learning lessons (wow,
there's a tongue-twister for you!).
==============================

DTB	If one looks at the symbolic origins we have: [ S.D. I pp.
4-6 ] We see: the ZERO, the CIRCLE, then the DOT in the
CIRCLE, then the DIAMETER in the CIRCLE, and then CROSSED
DIAMETERS in the CIRCLE; and this is followed by the SWASTIKA;
showing CYCLES, MOTION and KARMA (not only universal, but
including the Karma of each MONAD.

The ONE and the MANY are eternally related. That which changes
is the Manasic and Buddhic impression left from the MOTIVES of
the Monads in EVOLUTION, as they climb its "LADDER" That's how I
see it. Buddhi-Manas represent the "growing tip" of the
self-consciousness each monad has or is developing (as I see it)
and when fully matured the "self-consciousness" (which might be
called 'linear,' develops into COMPASSION, MERCY, SELF-SACRIFICE,
and BUDDHAHOOD -- Samma Sambuddhaha -- The Universal vision of
the Maha-Buddhas. A vision that includes the source of the power
to develop, grow and then to re-unite (be self-sacrifice) with
every other thing or non-thing (BENESS ?) Is this not the
possible origin of any SOURCE one might feel is missing in these
metaphysics?

Finally having consciously achieved the ALL, could it not be
possible for the concept of SELF-SACRIFICE for the sake of others
,of the struggling masses emerge as a basis for the "BUILDING"
and the CREATING (or rather re-organizing) of a Cosmos, a solar
System or an Earth ?

Look at the marvelous and diverse organization of our own
physical bodies as an illustration of the multitude (that is to
us numerically undefinable) -- is this not possibly an analogy
that would serve? And as to the present limits of our bodies, is
all we have already (in this embodiment) experienced, ate,
breathed, drank, discharged, and affected during out past years
in this incarnation -- and which is spread out spherically over
an immensity of space? Even physically we cover an immense area.
Some years ago I recall reading about the immensity of atoms in a
TABLE-SPOON of water, the Professor of chemistry the said: If
you could tag those atoms, an d pour them back into any ocean,
then within 2 years take a table-spoonful of water from any place
on earth. You will be sure to find one of the original tagged
atoms among the rest. For universality and viability that gave
me pause for thought.

Incidentally I have been reviewing the articles and comments by
H.P.B. on Vedantin, Buddhist and Tibetan teachings. I found them
very helpful:

H.P.B.'s EDITORIAL APPENDICES to S. Row's THE ARYAN-ARHAT
ESOTERIC TENETS [ULT HPB Articles III 330 ; FIVE YEARS OF
THEOSOPHY p. 112; Theosophist, January 1882]

TIBETAN TEACHINGS	(prepared and sent from Tibet in 1882)
[Published in LUCIFER Sept, & Oct. 1894, Vol. 18, p. 9; ULT
H.P.B.'s Articles III p 337]


LAMAS AND DRUZES	[Theosophist, June 1881; ULT H.P.B. Articles
III, p. 281; MODERN PANARION, p. 375-9; ISIS II pp 306-318]

=============================



<<The purpose for Manifestation is to afford the MONADS
(Immortal
Pilgrims, Units of Consciousness) .a program that includes them
all in the effort to become TOTALLY SPIRITUAL and VIRTUOUS
(obeying freely the LAW OF KARMA which is universally present).>>

But monads already are spiritual. At least mine is. My spiritual
monad simply doesn't need to learn anything. Rather, I need to
learn to listen more to it and to gradually become it.

==========================================
DTB	And that is also my point. Our "Lower Nature (or Lower
Quarternary)" is made up of those many MONADS that are in the
process of learning from us by the power of for motives -- in
turn they become the "carriers" of our Karma as they go out into
Nature and eventually return to us as our future "tools." If
we disfigured them, then the disfigurement will return to us as
"bad Karma." (And similarly for "good Karma.)

Are you not You (the CENTER of your own Self (let me use the
designation MONAD is also present in all humans) . In the Human
kingdom, is it not this MONAD which has sacrificed itself to help
raise the many "younger Monads -- in experience, aye, even in our
own physical bodies -- to our Manasic and Buddhic level of
consciousness? Is this not a key to the duality of the MONAD --
SPIRIT / MATTER conjoined eternally. I do not think we (using
our Lower Manas) can determine the time or origin of that
conjoining

Agreed that each (our) ATMA is a "Ray of the ONE SPIRIT." What
makes it distinct, unless it is its association with primordial
MATTER (Mulaprakriti) ?
==============================


<<An old text (I think I quoted it yesterday) says that the ONE
desiring to know itself, created a MIRROR of MONADS which
represent the highest essence of MATTER (Maha-Buddhi or
Mulaprakriti) -- (the MONAD being defined as a field of
consciousness created egg-shaped or ovoid between two poles we
would SPIRIT and its opposite MATTER).>>

There are scads of creation myths around, some old and some
new. All linear creation myths have fundamental logic problems.
Logically, if the ONE didn't know itself, then it wasn't
perfect or omniscient to begin with.
=======================================

DTB	If it is the ONE ALL, then every shade of distinction or
meaning is INCLUDED in its "omniscience." No MANIFESTATION could
possibly occur without this as a premise, could it? I would say
there are worlds on which less experience is acquired (our
"Moon-chain" as an instance, as defined in S.D. I by H.P.B.)
This eliminates linearity and substitutes allness or if you
prefer sphericity.
===============================

What kind of divinity
is such an imperfect and ignorant thing? I don't need a
mirror in order to know myself, why should Divinity?
(I am not saying that this isn't a great story, but it does
have some severe logic problems, as well as inherent
anthropomorphism)

DTB	From the point of view of linearity, I agree it has. But
taking the ALL (or sphericity) as a base, those singularities and
linearities are eliminated. Are they not ?

Best wishes to you,

Dal

Jerry S.


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