Theos-Talk Archives (January 2001 Message tt00139)

Hi Katinka:

I would not try to use H.P.B.'s definitions in the context of the
somewhat rigid values given to them by the current bath of
orientalists and Buddhists -- as we do not have H.P.B. here, we
can only try to visualize what she meant and see if the
parameters she gave to terms (and she used many synonyms) so that
we deal with IDEAS and not only with the superficial words. The
study of illusion, emptiness, void, space is illustrative to me
of MAYA -- general illusion.

But what in us deals with these differences and concepts unless
it is part of the UNCHANGEABLE ONE which withstands illusion,
maya Voidness and is SPACE ITSELF as an IDEAL reality? We all
have THAT as OUR BASE. Our existence, our reality, our
questioning arises from the desire to regulate and pierce through
the various illusions that seem to cloud our perception. None of
us can force anyone else to adopt our view or our particular
nomenclature.

Ideas transcend descriptions in words all the time.

I looked up my notes in the T. Glossary (p. 313) on SUNYA and
SUNYATA -- saw they were related to MAYA -- sd I 361 (TOP OF
PAGE) ;

I was looking also at S.D. ii 2O8 where there is something to do
with the "CONCEALED SUN -- as the visible SUN gives light and
Life to the "ILLUSIONS." So the 'CONCEALED SUN, gives light and
life in Pralaya. This just a surmise of mine.

If we are going to employ "absolute meanings one way, we have to
be consistent and apply them in other areas too.

Also to assign to Theosophy only an area of meaning is not
correct. Theosophy covers all philosophies and religions and is
the ROOT of them all. So if anything, current meanings have to
be retraced to that ROOT.

In another section there is some question about the BASICS. One
need only consider those carefully to see if they do not relate
to fundamental concepts basic to all philosophies and religions
(appended herewith)

----------------------
If you will look at the Secret Doctrine Vol. I pp 1 to 19 you
will find the BASICS laid out for you:

0	THE ETERNAL INDEFINABLE BACKGROUND -- ABSOLUTENESS

1	SPIRIT or THAT WHICH IS PERFECT IN MANIFESTATION IN ALL DEGREES
Call IT the MANIFESTING LOGOS / VERBUM / WORD.

2	MATTER consisting of "MONADS" which serve in nature to form the
limits or basis of all physical or intermediate constructs --
which lie between the SPIRIT and MATTER (density and illusion).
Call these the indefinable units of SPIRIT/MATTER which are
indestructible and eternal and which are the foundation building
blocks of all things in evolution. We are MONADS with
considerable experience and are endowed with MINDS..

3	MIND -- or INTELLIGENCE or CONSCIOUSNESS -- awareness of SELF
and OTHER SELVES. [ In THE OCEAN OF THEOSOPHY, where this is
covered extensively, please read Chapter IV, VII ]

4.	KAMA -- Passion, emotion, desire, yearning, etc... a plane of
confusion and illusion -- of constant change -- chaos, but yet,
intelligent. The highest aspect of it may be the INSTINCT of the
animals and it has its presence in Man also where it is allied to
the Mind -- this constitutes KAMA-MANAS or the Lower, or
Embodied brain-mind. We all use this constantly, whenever our
thinking is ruled by desire. [ In the OCEAN OF THEOSOPHY, please
read Chapters: VI, VII ]

5	KARMA -- THE LAW That rules all relationships in NATURE (the
Universe) Its expression is HARMONY, or balance. Its operation
is on all beings, because their independence or free-will allows
them to make mistakes -- when unbridled Kama runs away with
Manas. Karma is both general and individual [ If you have THE
OCEAN OF THEOSOPHY, please read Chapters : XI, XIV ]

6	EVOLUTION is a continuous pattern of growth in knowledge and
wisdom through experience for ALL BEINGS, from the Lowest Atom
(Monad) to the highest DHYANI BUDDHA. None is exempt from this
pattern, nor from KARMA, nor from the obligation to be of service
to others. [ In the OCEAN OF THEOSOPHY, see Chapters II, III,
IV, XV ]

7	The contribution that all must pay to the UNIVERSE of HONEST
PERFECT LAW is to be cooperative. This demands of each of us
generosity and assiduity in study, so that, we may become
individually WISE and HARMLESS.

The PERFECTED MAN is illustrated in the nature and life of great
men, such as Jesus, Pythagoras, Plato, Buddha, Zoroaster,
Krishna, Lao Tze, Confucius, Gandhi,
Tsonkhapa, and thousands of great men and women who have lived
and practiced a life that was lived for the service of others.

What would you have more basic than that ?

---------------------------------------------------------------

Best wishes as always,

Dallas

===========================
-----Original Message-----
From: Katinka Hesselink [mailto:katinka_hesselink@yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, January 26, 2001 4:14 AM
To: Theosophy Study List
Subject: Re:RE:GERRY to Dallas -- D's answers

Hi Dallas,

What you write below is for me very recognizable: I used to have
the same
difficulty. Emptiness is a difficult buddhist concept, that is
only
understood within a theosophical context (though by now I am sure
Grigor
disagrees), when noticing that it is a translation of the term
sunnyata
(with one or two nn's). Look that up in the theosophical glossary
(HPB's
glossary) and you will find that she defines it as something like
*illusion*, which is why I call it maya, which is how HPB
describes the
illusive nature of reality.

For me, having studied the first volume of the SD, at first I
also linked
the term emptiness to space, interpreting space in a blavatskyan
way. That
just does not work. One has to juggle terminology here, or stick
to one
system, and not even discuss the conclusions of TIbetan Buddhism.

Katinka
> DTB EMPTINESS does not really answer anything.
SPACE
> is filled with Monads (atoms, sub-atoms, fields, and many kinds
> of actions -- the combination giving us our present situation
and
> condition. We labor in this field seeking to understand its
> existence, relations to us, karma of the past we engaged in
> starting, potential of the several futures we can devise so as
to
> make things balanced and easy for our companions and ourselves.
> Finally the question of the equilibrium of the Universe emerges
> and I do not think we have the necessary words to express the
> metaphysical realities we have been given to think about.


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