Theos-Talk Archives (November 2000 Message tt00129)

Discussion indeed! Thank you for your stimulating questions and 
thoughts.

First, some thoughts about Sham's questions after sleeping on them. 
Good questions require good answers and having just read LMH's 
posting on this subject that needs sometime to digest.

Given that there is no way to separate the Mind from the awareness of 
phenomena what can we understand about these differing points of 
view. Western science regards consciousness as a phenomena giving it 
substantial form, where as, spiritually regarded, mind appears as an 
infinitely empty container in which all phenomena manifest and has 
certain inherent qualities. 

There appears to be no problem with regarding inter-molecular space 
as a kind of primordial substance. What appears to awareness, be that 
iron or emptyness is really a matter of the state of awareness, or 
state of mind. Substance appears as a state of consciousness. In that 
as consciousness unfolds or the state of mind changes, as in death, 
then what follows is a change in the appearance of phenomena or 
substance. As human beings, we are subjects within certain realms 
where substances conform to their karmic causes. I believe that this 
is what HPB refers to as the limits beyond which we can go not. If 
there is any way to characterize HPB's work, it is that she is 
showing us the naked reality of our consciousness and asking us to 
examine That.

This does not preclude or exclude the consciousness of beings that 
exist at other energetic frequencies or interpenetrating planes of 
being and that are subject to their corresponding realms that are 
just as substantial as iron is in our realm though those substances 
may appear to us as space in our realm. So nothing exists apart from 
the mind, regardless of whatever state the mind is in.

Another approach we may take to analyze this is to regard phenomena 
as effect produced by a cause. Force, must be the sensible 
appearance of this process, the movement of energetic flux, of 
manifestation or pralaya due to cause. Phenomena appears due to cause 
and when the cause is removed the phenomena disappears without a 
trace. This also applies to the mind and its state. Different states 
of Mind come about because of causes so it follows that in other 
states of Mind different phenomena and substance will arise in 
awareness.

It is not my intent to flippantly reduce the wealth of knowledge 
revealed by science to mere mental clutter, that would be 
disrespectful nor is it my intent to reduce spiritual views of Mind 
to an unregardable eternalist view. Science is an ego, an "I" that 
wants to always box things in or find smaller and smaller 
compartments of usefully quantifiable corresponding information. It 
does this by generating them with concepts, mental constructs. When 
one box of concept is complete another larger box is under 
development somewhere else. The question, is this, are we just 
creating more causes for a larger universe or universes? And if so, 
then we must examine the motivation for producing these causes. That 
line of questioning ultimately leads back to the purpose of being 
human. This, I regard, as the highest Theosophical duty.

It is a real pleasure to take part in such a stimulating 
converstation. More on this thread later.

Sherab