Theos-Talk Archives (April 2000 Message tt00051)

Having followed this 'thread' from its inception, would like to say,
speaking only for my 'self,' of course:

1.  this matter of historical Theosophical 'personalities,'
'chosen' or otherwise, is a side-issue.

2.  much prefer dicussions regarding the theory/practice of Theosophy
as presented by its Founders.

3.  it has been said that the 'real history of the Movement' has
not been, and cannot be, written ... it's an Oral Tradition, in
spite of all the written words, an 'unwritten philosophy', to use
the phrase of F.M.Cornford.

4.  The physical-plane details of the lives of beings like HPB and
WQJ are misleading, at best.  Perhaps a little more attention to
several of the many implications of their articles on 'occultism'
would be helpful.

5.  "Those who know, do not say.  Those who say, do not know."
Lao Tzu.  What do any of us 'know' of the 'occult' side of HPB,
WQJ, Crosibe?  Only what we read ... and, why did any of them
write what they did?  

6.  "If you want to know us, study our Philosophy.  If you want to
serve us, serve our Humanity."  Mahatma M.

7.  Would prefer the debates-with-agendas to be taken off-list.

Thank you,

Barrett Culmback






















On Mon, 17 Apr 2000 16:02:46 +0200, you wrote:

>Dear Dallas,
>The Eclectic Theosophist is as reprint available still from Point Loma
>Publications, San Diego, CA.
>Please email Mr Kenneth Small mailto:events@wisdomtraditions.com. I am sure
>he can help you.
>
>Their homepage is http://www.wisdomtraditions.com/
>
>What a luck that teh UNCENSORED theos-talk still exists.
>
>Best, Frank
>
>>
>> April 17th 2000
>>
>> Dear Frank:
>>
>> I just read yours (copied below).
>>
>> I would be glad if you could help me with additional information.
>>
>> I see that you have referred me to a magazine ECLECTIC
>> THEOSOPHIST that is now out of print.  Would you care to let me
>> have a copy of the relevant passages ?  Or tell me where I can
>> access this material to read it ?
>>
>> I have put some notes below in your letter and would be glad to
>> have information as asked for there, if available.
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>>
>> Dallas
>>
>> ==============================
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com
>> [mailto:owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com]On Behalf Of Frank
>> Reitemeyer
>> Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2000 7:52 AM
>> To: theos-talk@theosophy.com
>> Subject: Re: Theos-World RE: DTB = F ? Re: Joe and Dallas on Mrs.
>> Katherine Tingley and her relationship to William Q. Judge
>>
>>
>> FR Dear Dallas,
>>
>> information about Crosbie's view about KT before and after he was
>> kicked out
>> by her can for example be found in:  The Eclectic Theosophist
>> Nos. 37/3, 39/8 or 101/5.
>>
>> DTB According to that which Crosbie said, he RESIGNED.  The entry
>> made in the List of Members (I am told) is not clear as to why he
>> left, it has been smudged so as to make it illegible.  It does
>> not say "Kicked out."
>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>> FR That Crosbie accepted first KT is a matter of fact, oral and
>> by documents.
>>
>> DTB Yes I know this and have seen these.
>> ------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>> FR Also, that KT has had the same tulku powers as Judge and that
>> they worked
>> together in esoteric matters.
>>
>> DTB Where, and who says this ?  What are "tulku" powers ?
>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>> FR Her co-workers confirmed as witnesses that she was in direct
>> connection with
>> the Masters.
>>
>> DTB Where is this said ?
>> ---------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>> FR Please let me emphazize that I do NOT underestimate the value
>> of the
>> important work of the ULT.  I only try to balance out what was
>> too one-sided
>> said against KT by Jerome before.
>>
>> DTB Understood.  But the "balance" still needs to be given,
>> please.  As far as I can see you are quoting from secondary
>> sources.  I would like to be able to get to the primary
>> sources -- then we will have the FACTS and not opinions to
>> consider.
>> ---------------------------------------
>>
>>
>> Frank
>>
>> ==================
>>
>> > April 16th 2000
>> >
>> > Dear Frank:
>> >
>> > You make some important and to me startling statements.
>> > Would you be able to let know what are the SOURCE of those
>> > statements?  Where can I find any documents that support them?
>>
>> > SNIP
>> >
>> > That which you offer is quite unsupported.
>> > Is it only opinion or is it fact ?
>> >
>> > Dallas
>> >
>> > ================================
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From:  Behalf Of Frank Reitemeyer
>> > Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2000 7:20 PM
>> > To: Theos-Talk@Theosophy.Com;
>> > Subject: Theos-World Re: [bn-study] Re: Joe and Dallas on Mrs.
>> > Katherine Tingley and her relationship to William Q. Judge
>> >
>>
>> FRANK to JEROME
>>
>>
>> > Guy, you really don't know of what you are talking about.
>> > KT never held any seances,
>>
>> DTB I have a copy of a letter by Mr. A. Neresheimer that narrates
>> one.
>> -----------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>> FR as HPB never did, too.
>> > KT was trained in the same fashion as HPB and WQJ for her task
>> in
>> > the outer  world.
>>
>> DTB Where is there evidence about this ?  Who says this ?  I know
>> that this is claimed about her, but I have not seen any evidence
>> of it.  Note:
>>
>> KT joined the TS about 3 years before Mr. Judge's death.
>>
>> WQJ was a designated a "Chela of 13 years" by HPB in 1888.  By
>> 1896 when he died he was by then 20 years a "chela ."
>> Additionally I have seen evidence that the Masters dealt directly
>> with him.  I have seen no evidence so far, that KT dealt direct
>> with the Masters, although this has been claimed for her.
>> -------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>> FR KT was the paraclete and the saver of Theosophy in USA.
>>
>> DTB Do we have a Source for this statement ?
>> ---------------------------------------------
>>
>> FR > All that WAS accepted even by a Robert Crosbie.
>> > But when Crosbie  was kicked out by KT, he began his rumors and
>> > dirty talking against KT
>>
>> DTB Have  you any sources for this?  Who says this ?  Where is it
>> said ?
>> According to that which Crosbie said, he RESIGNED.  The entry
>> made in the List of Members (I am told) is not clear as to why he
>> left, it has been smudged so as to make it illegible.  It does
>> not say "Kicked out."
>> ---------------------------------------------
>>
>> FR and then founded his ULT.
>>
>> DTB Allow me a slight change here:  it was not "his ULT" but "the
>> ULT."  He is not found to have made any propriety claims
>> concerning the ULT.
>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Frank we seem to be dealing with things at second hand, hence:
>>
>> I am separately publishing some facts concerning the ULT, its
>> policies and its operations, for you and others to read. and
>> think about.
>> ------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>> > Best, Frank
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>> Jerome wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > > Katherine Tingley took care of Judge while he was dying and
>> > > external observers mistook this as some kind of special
>> > > relationship.  Sorry! there is plenty of hard evidence that
>> the
>> > > real connection thru HPB and Judge was elsewhere.  I have had
>> > > people stare me straight in the face and say that Judge
>> > attended  seances with Katherine Tingley ---- so much for
>> fantasy!!
>>
>> Some  day the real story will come out.
>>
>> > > best,
>> > > jerome
>> >===================================
>> >
>>
>>
>> -- THEOSOPHY WORLD -- Theosophical Talk -- theos-talk@theosophy.com
>>
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>
>
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>
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