Theos-Talk Archives (September 1999 Message tt00058)

Sept 6th

Dear Rich:

I have the same kind of question myself.  I am sure that all of us, as
"student-teachers" seem to stir around at a common level.

I don't see much point in trying to identify degrees of aptness or
achievement.  But in some of the exchanges we make there is always an
element of addition rather than subtraction or mystification.

I have found over the years, working with and through Theosophy that
one develops a "feel" for ideas that are more impersonal, universal,
ideal, virtuous (?), and those I try to follow out to see if they will
lead to higher realms of understanding.

I have been particularly captivated by the concept that we live in a
"moral" universe -- where Karma as fairness, and justice reign,
without any error or hesitation.  We all depend entirely on NATURE.
So, we ought to bend our energies to learning about her.  I have
always been under the impression that Theosophy dealt with the
essential propositions of History -- the history and the
identification of basic ideas which dovetail with Natures' ways and
means.  Of course the "history" part is a partial set of key details
abstracted from the Akasic records.

I am sure we all do this, as our individual progress and research
proceeds.   As I said in a recent positing, there are reams of
information given to us, even the amount that HPB and the Mahatmas
offered 115 + years ago require time to review and digest.  I guess I
have found that there is not enough time to fully do all this, yet,
there is embodied in those propositions a thread of continuity and
cohesiveness that indicates (to me) that certain fundamental ideas
have to be used by us all the time.  To identify those with adequate
assurance is a great and almost continuous task. (At least for me.)

In one of the FIVE MESSAGES HPB says that more in the way of teachings
will only be given out if the present crop of students studies and
applies what has been given up to now. For myself I would hesitate to
say that I have learned all I can or could from what I have been
presented with as "text-books."

In my efforts, I find as I go over again, and again, the writings of
HPB and the Mahatmas in the SD and the articles, there seems to be a
new layer of meaning that emerges every time.  I sometimes wonder if
it is like the legendary Koom-Boom tree, a new set of ideas emerges as
we peel away the bark or examine fresh leaves again.  I would say that
has taught me patience and to be extra attentive.

Your observation that there are here and now Tibetan and other monks
and teachers who have devoted their lives to the study of universal
Theosophy, indicates to me that it is indeed universal in scope.  But
would you have perceived that without a preliminary knowledge of
Theosophy?  That is a speculative question of course.

Each one uses their best judgment.  And chooses their own path.  But,
regardless, if that choice is wise or not, the thing to note is that
the choice is always free and individual.  It is made by you and not
by someone else, nor is it made for you.

I would add that I would have a hard time trying to decide if another
"guru's" teaching was equal to or superior to that offered to us by
HPB or the Mahatmas.  Again, one has to use one's best discrimination
in such matters.  In any case I would advise caution.

Best wishes,

Dal

Dallas
dalval@nwc.net 


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-theos-talk@pippin.imagiware.com
[mailto:owner-theos-talk@pippin.imagiware.com]On Behalf Of
Richtay@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, September 05, 1999 11:02 AM
To: theos-talk@theosophy.com
Subject: Theos-World Blind leading the blind



In a message dated 9/4/99 2:14:32 PM, dalval@nwc.net writes:

<< But what I also meant was the Theosophy offers us some keys so that
we
can do a good part of the work ourselves, once that we pass the
childhood and the young adult levels -- we all gradually assume the
education process consciously and deliberately steering ourselves and
selecting our areas of work.  >>

No argument here.  But what I meant to suggest (and perhaps it was *I*
who
was not clear) is that I am not aware of ANY Theosophist who is beyond
the
"childhood and young adult stage" of spiritual growth.  (Perhaps I am
deeply
misinformed?)  We are NOT READY to guide ourselves completely alone,
and no
chela is, let alone a probationary candidate.  (HPB assures us that
less than
1 in 1,000 could make the grade on their own, without being swept up
into
Black Magic.)

This is not meant to be an attack on any one, and I include myself in
the
lowest grade of aspirants.  But if what I write is true, then
Theosophists
guiding other Theosophists are literally the blind leading the blind
(again,
no disrespect intended).   I do not doubt the value of our fellowship,
nor
our altruistic intentions (well, I rarely have reason to doubt them
...) but
I challenge the long-term value of our mutual guidance.  I have
watched very
small children try to correct each other's speech and etiquette, and
it's not
pretty.  Luckily, such is NOT the only option open to us.

Dallas continues:

<<As to HPB and the Masters presence.  I believe it is clear from all
they wrote that they do not die. And (as influences) the are very much
present around us all the time.  Our interest in studying and
practicing Theosophy serves to attract their notice. If we develop, in
addition, the  desire to help our fellows because we can see the value
of brotherhood, we would again deepen their interest in us. >>

Again, I do not challenge the truthfulness of these words.  But I wish
to
tell a "joke" that I heard while in Divinity School which I think is
quite
suggestive here.

It seems there was a very religious man who, along with his entire
community,
was facing a terrible rain storm which produced a disastrous flood.
The
local authorities were rounding people up to take them to high and dry
shelters, and during the afternoon one of the police pulled up to this
fellow's house and said "Hand me your bags and get in -- we need to
get out
of here before the water really begins to rise."

And the religious fellow said "Go ahead and help my neighbors next
door, they
need you more.  I have faith in the Lord and he will save me."  So the
policeman drove on.

Later in the afternoon the waters had risen severely.  The religious
man was
now on the balcony of his second flood when a deputy arrived in a
motorboat.
The deputy said "Hop in quick -- there's a lot more water on the way
and this
whole area is going to be underwater in a few hours!"

But the religious man said "I'm fine, I have faith in the Lord and he
will
save me.  Please go help Miss Margaret down the block!"  So the
motorboat
roared on.

As the light was fading, the waters had now risen so high that the
religious
man was on his roof.  The sheriff arrived in a helicopter and said
"Get in
now!  The waters are about to wash everything away!"

But the religious man said, "Oh no, I think there must be other people
on
their roofs and they need you more.  I have faith in the Lord and He
will
save me."

Well, half an hour later the man drowned.

He appeared in spirit before St. Peter's pearly gates, and he was
quite
angry.  The religious man said to St. Peter, "I have been one of the
Lord's
most faithful servants my ENTIRE life, and I have always tried to help
others
before me.  How could God let this happen to me?!?"

And St. Peter said, "Listen, guy -- the Lord sent a truck, a motorboat
and a
helicopter.  What more do you want?"

The point of the story is that, wherever HPB and her Masters may be
now, in
body or out of it, no true Theosophist doubts Their presence and
supervision.
 But here before us in America, Great Britain and elsewhere we have
the
foremost Lamas of Tibet -- giving out the VERY SAME teachings HPB did
(and
more!!) using often the very same vocabulary and referring to the very
same
texts.  Their LIVING PRESENCE is an incredible gift, and probably a
very rare
one -- it did not exist 20 years ago.  Speaking from personal
experience,
many of these lamas and monks are the very embodiment of humility,
compassion
and wisdom.

Can you imagine what words HPB would use to ridicule us if, rather
than
sitting at the feet of these very great LIVING teachers, we keep our
noses in
our books and disdained to "abandon" our original teachers?

I think she would have far stronger names than "flapdoodle" for us
fools!!

The Dalai Lama is giving teachings in Los Angeles next month.  The
greatest
known authority on Dzogchen, Chogyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche, is giving
a
retreat in Tahoe this month.  I highly recommend both to this list's
readers,
and I would be interested to hear what other teachings are going on
around
us.  HPB did not scorn to make alliances with all forces which could
help our
movement, and I urge all of us to do the same.

I feel like Cassandra wailing on the walls of Troy, because I know
almost no
one will heed my words.  But then again, "let those who have ears,
hear" (to
quote another LIVING presence).

Rich

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